Home > Blogs > Max Growth > Brasov Property
Brasov, Romania – Capital of Lifestyle?

There is something unique yet indefinable about Brasov. And that makes it a hard city to write about!

On the one hand Brasov is a clear tourist destination;
- spectacular Saxon (ie German-like) walled city that dates from the 14th Century
- nestled under Romanians tallest mountains it offers wonderful views up to the mountains from all locations in the walled city, old town and across the city and the plains (including light industrial development) and beyond
- the base for exploring Transylvania and Bran (Dracula’s) castle
- the base for the most developed (and still developing) ski resort in Romania

However, there is one dimension that makes Brasov almost unique. And that is its relationship with the booming monster (as locals call it) of Bucharest.

Continuing my car spotting rule of thumb, our Volvo (driven here from Spain) looked ordinary next to the cars parked on the streets of Brasov’s old town.

Aston Martins nestled with Porche’s and BMW and Audi’s looked oridinary.

How come?

Two reasons – firstly ‘there is money in them hills’ – ie Brasov is a wealthy and prosperous city on its own account.

But also – and crucially – it is the play ground for the wealthy Bucharest barons seeking to escape the horrid summer heat on the Romanian plain.

Bucharest reached 50 Celsius in late July (thankfully it has cooled and even rained at the beginning of August) but the heat and traffic and noise and pollution and density of this most intense capital city leads to a mass exodus to Brasov every weekend of anyone who can afford a car and the petrol.

In fact, the road north of Bucharest running past Otopeni International Airport – already busy and in the middle of major road improvements – becomes a parking lot on Friday evenings for those exiting to Brasov and again the same pattern is repeated on Sunday night for those returning from their ‘house in the mountains’.

And this is the aspect that I am struggling to find equal comparison with anywhere in Europe.

The wealthy in Bucharest (and there are more and more of them every day) talk about their ‘house in the mountains’. By which they mean a flat in Brasov – either in the walled city, old town, the hills around or a new development nearby.

It is worth noting that for most Bucharest entrepreneurs, Saturday is a work day – only it is more fun when it involves lunch in Brasov or a game of golf (on the much promised golf course).

This means that Brasov is less of a tourist resort – although this potential remains largely untapped – and more of a weekend business conference centre for the Bucharest barons.

This is, of course, to ignore Brasov’s natural trading position as the first city inside the German/Hungarian influenced Transylvanian mountains. And its substantial industrial past and the new future built on high levels of technological investment in sophisticated light industry and assembly.

For instance, Brasov is the world centre for manufacturing of car seat belts and pistons for opening the hatch of your hatch back. In addition, the city has a huge tractor factory – currently standing semi-idle – which is likely to benefit from a massive upgrade to a high tech assembly line.

Add to this the 3,500 high tech industrial jobs from the world’s largest ball bearing manufacturer and you have a pretty good idea of the industrial landscape and links to the car industry.

Brasov enjoys (or equally, suffers because of it) a good road link with Bucharest (except the appalling road exiting Bucharest – which is currently in the middle of major upgrade road works).

However, Brasov does not yet have an airport. And this will restrict its appeal to those able to arrive by car (and therefore the influence of the Bucharest Barons will remain the dominant feature for the next 3 years before the airport is built).

Nevertheless, for the super wealthy, Brasov does have a helipad and helicopter sales in Romania are rocketing as the roads clogs with internationally bound lorries and too many Audi Q7s.

So, what is Brasov?

Is Brasov an Oxford, which is comparable due to the historic centre and industrial history (and future) linked to the car? Or is it more of Grenoble, France – nestled under the Alpine mountains?

Well, neither of these comparisons captures the fact that it is the centre of the counties present (and future) tourism. So, looking around the world – perhaps it is like Simla – the summer capital of India in the days of the British Raj when the government used to exit Dehli in search of a cooler location.

Or like Segovia – north of Madrid (and its baking summer heat) and in the mountains too.

However, Brasov is a city in its own right. It is not just a retreat – it is also a natural trading centre and of course, a significant location for the car and related industries.

This makes comparisons exceptionally difficult, but nevertheless rewarding, because I am tempted to say the Brasov is unique.

Brasov benefits from an exceptional location and huge natural resources – I’m thinking of green trees, fresh air and mountains, the tourism of the Saxon towns of Transylvania and the nearby (15 mins drive) ski resort.

Now, the city is re-modelling itself. It is creating a modern CBD (Central Business District) and whilst is doesn’t yet contain acres of A class office space, there is, nevertheless, a CBD developing in the space between the walled town and the railway station.

I can’t help feeling that an airport will accelerate this development and the lack of the airport is given as the key reason that Nokia chose Cluj-Napoca over Brasov.

However, the late arrival of the airport will give Brasov a different opportunity. So, instead of the headlong charge for growth which we will see in Cluj-Napoca, Brasov will be a rapid but steadily developing location.

The lack of an airport (so reliance on roads and helicopters) will mean that Brasov can develop over a slightly longer time frame and at a slightly reduce pace.

This, please note, is not a criticism – it is as much an opportunity as a threat.

It means that the city has time to remodel itself to preserve its character. It means that it can retain and focus on its luxury appeal that will preserve its unique flavour in the years to come.

Please note, this doesn’t mean development will be slow – it will be exceptionally fast – it will just be a little slower than its comparable cities such as Cluj-Napoca.

So, my best guess is that Brasov’s position in Romania is not as the second biggest city outside Bucharest. That will go to Cluj-Napoca – but Brasov will be Romanian’s favourite city (along with its Saxon sister Sibiu) .

It will be the capital of lifestyle – not political influence nor industrial might.

And this will create a unique fusion.

I don’t believe that Brasov will become Romania’s creative centre – that will remain in Bucharest – where the underground grunginess of the city offers artists the same kind of environment as Berlin (only with the economic growth and massive expansion of the city that is normally a prerequisite for avant-garde artistic creation – think of New York in the 50’s as a better comparison than half empty Berlin).

However, many service companies will choose Brasov as their head office location. Business in this city will be easier – staff more loyal than the ranging free market self interest of the political and economic capital.

And, international firms too, will choose this location – in the heart of the country – but run more on German business principles than the more Balkan-like/ Turkish way of business in the Bucharest.

In some way, business will be easier in Brasov. Staff, and especially senior key staff, will want to live there.

And so, don’t expect Brasov to announce the next ‘Nokia’ factory – although it will have industrial successes. Don’t expect big FDI stories of large scale investment.

Instead, expect many many little investments – small enough to fall benefit the FDI reporting radar – but significant enough to make a huge impact on the city.

Brasov is the lifestyle city of Romania. It is also probably the safest city in which foreign service companies can invest and this will appeal to the small and medium sized enterprises that want to set up shop in booming Romanian but don’t have the financial or political muscle to make it in Bucharest.

Nevertheless, despite the lack of headlines, Brasov will quietly build on its unique position – both the geographic heart of Romania and its position as the lifestyle capital.

What does this mean for property investors?

Well, clearly, this is a recommendation!

It means that luxury top end/ unique properties will do exceptionally well, as will more normal / everyday new build property.

And yes, I see Brasov inside the 200% club that I’ve been writing about in this blog.

However, it won’t be the second biggest city of Romania – that will go to Cluj-Napoca based on current evidence (although I am yet to visit Constanta and haven’t considered Timisoara).

Yet, Brasov will be Romania’s Lifestyle capital – and this will matter in Romania – it will matter a huge amount – because it is living next to an booming monster (Bucharest) and the Bucharesti will want (and need) lifestyle.

Bear in mind, lifestyle is in short supply in Romania. And, given the intensifying growth and development of Bucharest, it is in demand. Huge demand.

Brasov is, therefore, unique – it is Romania’s Lifestyle capital and that will drive property values – of all sorts – but also the luxury developments further and faster than other cities.

It could well become Romania’s most expensive city too.

Watch this space!

Cheers
Neil
POSTED BY NEIL LEWIS ON THU 2ND AUGUST AT 06:38 GMT
TAGS: Timisoara, Sibiu Property, Saxon Villages, Romania Property, Cluj-Napoca Property, Bucharest Property, Bucharest Property, Brasov Property
[ Comment On This Post ]
[ Back To Blog Home ]
BRASOV, ROMANIA – CAPITAL OF LIFESTYLE?

Hi All Just spoke to Tavi Bota - our local property finder - and he suggests that Innsbruck might be a similar 'lifestyle' capital? Cheers Neil


POSTED BY NEIL LEWIS ON THU 2ND AUGUST AT 20:37 Reply To Post
BRASOV IN THE 200% CLUB

Hello Neil, I am a Romanian living in the US but investing in Brasov where I will relocate next summer (2009). The properties (1 flat + 2 house plots) have gone up 400% since 2003 (flat) and 2004 (house plots). Romania is the place to invest in the real estate market. I have quite a few romanian friends here in America that plan to relocate back to Romania and I know a lot other that already did it. This will also contribute to the growth. Cheers, Catalin


POSTED BY CATALIN ON THU 2ND AUGUST AT 21:32 Reply To Post
BRASOV

Hi Neil, Excellent article and gives a very accurate picture of Brasov's x factor appeal. I would like to add that I understand that the airport construction has indeed been approved and the main contractor appointed. There has been speculation about this for many years but our contacts in the planning dept of Brasov's "town council" have confirmed this. Brasov has an all year round appeal as well. It is cooler in the summer than Bucharest meaning that it is bearable and in the winter months it is stunning due to the Alpine nature of the surrounding area. Many entrepeneurs (?) are looking closely at the area between Brasov and Bran, especially around the town of Raznov where there are huge plans for touristic development....even the ill fated "Dracula themepark" has been mentioned for this area again. Not sure if this is a good thing or not as it would be a shame to spoil such a beautiful area, but on the strength of rumour there are log cabins and hotels popping up everywhere. Land acquisition would seem prudent at this time as the nearby poiana Brasov, whilst Beautiful and exclusive, prices are very very high. Hope this helps


POSTED BY ALAN RICHARDS ON FRI 3RD AUGUST AT 09:17 Reply To Post
AIRPORT

Neil, Like your description. But just to point out that there will be an airport in Brasov shortly, expected within 2 years.


POSTED BY ANGELA GYULVESZY ON FRI 3RD AUGUST AT 15:16 Reply To Post
AIRPORT AND GROWTH IN BRASOV

Hi All - yes, I we've had it confirmed that the airport is due in Brasov in about 2 years - which is pretty quick! Also, for those who don't know Brasov - it has a thriving heliport - because so many wealthy people in Bucharest want to spend the weekend in Brasov (and don't want to use the road - which can be a 4 hour crawl in traffic). Our latest info is that property is continuing to move up in price. The development we launched - in the Spring - has gone up by a rumoured 20 to 30%. It seems like this city is being discovered and bought up! Cheers Neil


POSTED BY NEIL LEWIS ON FRI 14TH SEPTEMBER AT 09:40 Reply To Post
[ Comment On This Post ]
[ Back To Blog Home ]
Why are Romanian property prices high? Free markets, construction costs and Grannies
A lot of people – myself included – were initially surprised by the prices of property in Romanian and need reassurance that we are not buying inflated prices or deals that are designed to fleece the foreign investor!

Now, obviously, the price of property shows huge variation based on city (Bucharest vs Sibiu), location (city centre, prime locations, outer-centre and suburbs) and type/ quality, but nevertheless there is a general expectation that the property would be cheaper.

There are two main things to say about this.

Firstly, the Romanian property market is a thriving free market and therefore when anything is being sold it is being sold according to what people will pay for it. Currently, property in Romania is selling to the local people and selling fast and this will inevitably drive prices higher.

This is good news for property investors who have already bought into Bucharest, Brasov of other Romanian cities. However, investors still considering Romania may need to hurry to avoid further prices rises or quite soon will probably have missed the boat in some of the more obvious areas – such as the central areas of Bucharest.

It is worth nothing that a number of developers have noted that their buyers have quite ‘ordinary’ jobs - such as a bank teller or a semi-skilled worker from a Siemens factory.

In addition, a number of developers have pointed out (again, with some surprise) that large numbers of home buyers are using a mortgage to obtain the property.

This means that the ordinary white collar workers can ‘afford’ today’s prices – but many are concerned that they will not be able to afford ‘tomorrow’s’ prices – so they are jumping into the property market as quickly as they can and of course, driving up prices in the meantime.

Also, there is clear evidence that the labour market in Romania is showing similar signs to that in Spain. That is, that there is massive differentiation between subsistence farmers (perhaps on €50 euros per month) and bank tellers /supervisory workers who might earn €600+ per month. (Note we know of some building site workers currently be paid €1,000 per month – such is the need to finish a project).

(Clearly, managers and (especially engineers) are earning considerably more – but I am sticking mainly with ‘ordinary jobs’).

The second similarity that I am seeing between the Spanish and Romanian labour market is that both partners – husband and wife – go out to work. This effectively doubles the salary for the couple – so long as there is no cost of childcare – and here lies the Latin secret – that Brits and north Europeans will easily overlook – the grandparents!

The family – and grandparents – play a very important part in Romanian life. It is very common for grandchildren to be left with grandparents whilst the children (now adults of course) go out to work.

And by golly – they know how to work!

I was surprised by standard Spanish working hours – typically 9.30 to 7.30 and a number of successful managers working on Saturday’s too.

Equally, have spent most of my last two weekends working – all day Saturday and Sunday too if necessary – it is clear that the work ethic is alive and well in Romania just as it is in Spain.

Why? Well, firstly, people don’t have huge wages, so the only way to access the things they want is to work hard – and progress via pay rises, promotions and new jobs, and more immediately, they just work more hours and earn more money!

So, I believe that whilst Nokia may have made its decision to place its factory in Cluj-Napoca and INA Schaeffler in Brasov – both investing upwards of €100m each – based on low costs – this doesn’t prevent smart or hardworking (or both) Romanians from earning much, much more.

Lastly, this phenomenon of massive jobs growth and low productivity growth was a key feature of both the Spanish and the UK jobs market during the early and middle years of the property booms in those two markets. (It is only now that productivity has become the watch word in those two countries – mainly because everyone is already working all hours in the day and it is the only way to take this forward).

Secondly, the price of land and construction has risen massively and any fat margin that the developers may have had is now seriously at risk.

As a reminder, there are 3 components in any new build development
- land cost
- construction cost
- development margin (which covers the promotion, negotiation and the equity risk)

It is important to remember that the constructor quotes for a job and gets paid by the developer for following a schedule. In the world of corporate finance this is a very secure income with little risk and therefore historically the profit margin will be slim – as not much risk is being taken by the constructor.

The developer on the other hand carries the investment risk or equity risk. He stands to make (or possibly lose) large amounts of money and therefore, for it to be worth his while, he needs to have a project that shows a large margin – in Romania this can be upwards of 40%.

Clearly, in new emerging markets there are more risks that in established markets and I’d expect that with time the developer’s margin would reduce – but that this would be a 3 to 5 year cycle.

However, things aren’t happening like this in Romania at the moment.

To start with the cost of land has surged and secondly (and most importantly) the cost of construction has risen any where between 30 and 55%.

The construction costs have risen partly out of necessity (ie cement is 50% more expensive in Romania than in Austria and there is a world shortage of steel – which is also driving prices) plus the fact that higher quality developments need to important more non-Romanian materials to finish a project and these are currently very expensive (due to the lack of volume).

However, construction costs are also rising because labour costs have jumped and there simply are not enough construction teams to meet the surge in construction demand.

In fact, a number of developers in Romania are turning to Turkish construction firms because they have large teams (500+) who can be brought to bear on a project and ensure swift completion.

In addition, the construction firms are now spoilt for choice – they can pick and choose their projects such that they are able to pad their prices.

This leaves the developer with a dilemma – do I sell the land now and take a profit – or do I persist with development?

Most are deciding to persist with development and have come up with clever ideas on how to reduce the construction costs. Some developer have decided to become constructors and subcontract the different parts of the work others have been more imaginative and are building cement factories on their building sites (so that they don’t have to worry about Bucharest traffic and the unreliable deliver of cement nor the very high prices).

Either way, it is clear to me that whilst money is clearly being made in this market, no developer is ‘cleaning up’ nor ‘fleecing foreign investors’.

It is understandable that investors should have these concerns – especially as a lot of so called property investment groups invite developers to add 10 to15% to the price (this was reported to me by an experienced developer who was recently working in the Budapest, Hungary market) before selling it on to the UK investor.

It is also a valid concern since the black sea coast is not far from here – and again the agent commissions on many of these apartments are very high (15% typically- which is why agents are so keen to promote them!).

However, it remains that case that the developers I have met have decided to work through this difficult phase (rising costs and shrinking margins) and not sell their land because they want to build a property development company and brand and recognise that this will take 5 to 10 years.

This is excellent news for property investors, because it means that they can not afford to get it wrong for their early property buyers and that ‘overpricing’ of units is going to destroy their longer term plans.

I am not saying that there aren’t sharks - nor am I saying that property developers will knowingly undervalue their property – but I am saying that the long term view of that they have of their business means that they will not work with the wrong partners and they will price their property according to the market.

Hence, I am confident that the prices being paid by our property secrets investors are fair market price (or better where we have either negotiated a discount or are able to buy below market value in pre-phase 1 – where a developer will knowingly keep his prices slightly below the market for a small number of units in order to quickly prove the concept of his project).

I am also confident that the nature of the labour market – massive expansion of the number of jobs – and both partners working – plus the promotions and 10%+wage increases – will create the affordability to buy and own property now and in the future too.

Having said that – I also think we will see property prices quickly lift (ie within the next 12 months in Bucharest and 24 months in 2nd and 3rd tier cities) to reach the current affordability ceiling – at which point the annual growth will be more inline (but slightly about) wage growth.

Lastly, the Granny influence will have one last effect. Adult children will want to buy property near their parents - so that the Grannies and Grandpas can look after the children. Developers are also noting that this is a very strong influence in decisions to buy.

Some one once told me that the Spanish economy rested on the grandparents love for their grandchidren - I think it will be the same in Romania.

Cheers
Neil

ps. One last thing to note - old apartments have been rising in value by 25%+ each year for the past 3 or 4 years. Why? Simple - people moving to the cities to take up jobs that have been created by the massive economic expansion taking place in key Romanian cities. This is a trend that will drive up all property prices AND because the properties are owned without a mortgage a seller can easily take a loan for €20,000 to pay for the new property.

Currently, new build property is priced only slightly (10 to 15%) above existing property - and therefore, new build property is still in its 'take-off' stage.

Lastly, will a big expansion in supply dampen the demand and price growth? Unlikely, planning is still slow and therefore acts as a brake on development, but take Spain as an example - this country was able to build 600,000 units per year in 2004 and enjoy 25%+ per year growth.

Current projections show Bucharest with 15,000 units per year (this might be 30,000 across the country) and therefore currently just 5% of the Spanish peak in construction).
POSTED BY NEIL LEWIS ON WED 1ST AUGUST AT 05:11 GMT
TAGS: Spain Property, Spain Property, Romania Property, Cluj-Napoca Property, Bucharest Property, Brasov Property
[ Comment On This Post ]
[ Back To Blog Home ]
Bucharest - Cluj Napoca - and the greatest communist legacy.


There is no doubt that Bucharest and other Romanian cities, such as Cluj Napoca, are booming.

On my latest trip I read that the Romania national football team have already qualified for Euro 2008 – well ahead of you know who…

I also saw the first Bucharest store selling replica Romania football shirts and baseball caps – and I think we’ll have a lot more of that ‘in your face’ consumerism to come.

As some of the older readers of Property Secrets know, I have a personal hunch that football success and local property price growth go hand in hand. Now I know the wheels came off this theory during the last world cup – but it is significant and important to note new EU countries national teams (Croatia and Poland included) are doing better and better…

… now of course, my football and property theory is not perfect, as Arsenal’s 7-0 victory of the main Prague team showed last week – but if you look at the general trend you can see a clear pattern emerging.

In addition, during the trip I made last week, a further commercial tenant was announced for the Nokia Village of Jucu in Cluj Napoca. A large Finnish printing firm is going to invest €40m and is creating lots of jobs.

In fact, the project manager for this new Nokia led industrial / business park is predicting a similar announcement every month for the next 6 months or so!

Last week I travelled with a number of colleagues and investors who were making their first trip to the city.

They consistently remarked that they were

'constantly surprised that….

or that

Bucharest is like Spain 15 years ago, although it is going to develop much faster than Spain'

Yes, absolutely, I couldn’t have said it better myself.

The problem with most Brits or even Spanish or Irish investors who have never visited Romania is that they struggle to imagine the speed at which Romania is developing.

Just because the UK took 200 years to industrialised and urbanise doesn’t mean that other countries need to take that long too.

Just because Spain’s ex-dictatorship and EU entry economic miracle took 30 years – doesn’t mean that Romania – or any of the Central European countries will take as long.

In fact, I would imagine that the same development will take around 10 to 15 years. Half of the time it took in Spain and up to 20 times faster than in the UK.

Hence, it isn’t surprising that many investors who have not experienced Romania still have trouble coming to terms the nature of the property investment opportunities in Bucharest and Romania and second cities like Brasov and Cluj-Napoca.

The serious advice I heard was that when you visit Romania you should wipe your mind of your prejudices and start again!

Why? Because Romania is not what you expect. The phrase most commonly used was ‘I was really surprised…’

So, why is this? Why does Romania have the potential to develop so much faster than Britain did or even Spain did?

Two answers really.

1.) Firstly, the global financial markets allow much much more money to be focused on booming economies and so create an avalanche of economic development.

I heard a report yesterday that said that China’s economic development had slowed to just over 11% but that the country wasn’t over heating because inflation remained at around 1% and that 40% of the growth was due to investment spending!

11% growth isn’t happening to the booming economies of CEE (more like 6 to 10%) but growth is happening in a similar way – ie. rapid growth due to investment spending, followed by substantial leaps in exports and then (or in parallel) the development of domestic consumption.

2.) Secondly – and this is the big reason – the population of central and Eastern Europe is a lot smarter than you’d think. There are a substantial number of remarkably well educated and qualified people.

This means that once an idea catches on – or a new way of doing business is introduced, the local population are remarkable well qualified to pick it up and run with the opportunity.

I think this explains why foreign expat managers don’t stay long in New Europe – because they aren’t needed once they’ve handed over the core skills and work practices.

I was again impressed by the range and calibre of business people I met in Romania and I can see no reason why Property Secrets, as an international business, shouldn’t source relevant business services from this country. I would say that I am confident that in Romania we are able to contract with well qualified and smart people – who get business and offer services at affordable rates.

So, how is this transformation taking place? I believe it is on the back of a highly developed educational system.

The legacy of communism is a dedication to education. Therefore, it is my personal experience that the levels of education are far higher then the current GDP would suggest.

And that this implies that the GDP will grow rapidly – not that education levels will decline.

I believe this is one of the key reasons for foreign investment – and the great thing about investment in skilled work forces is that it tends to be the type of investment that benefits the wider economy and so creates a virtuous circle.

Let me finish off with a story.

Last month, my colleague was travelling on the Sofia metro and he started speaking to a 55 year old lady. The lady was very knowledgeable and, of course, spoke perfect English. When my colleague complimented her on her English and asked if she had travelled a lot, she said yes – meaning she regularly used the Sofia metro.

So he asked her more directly if she had travelled or worked in the UK. ‘No’ she said, ‘I’ve only ever been to Sofia’.

The English was learned locally and is an indication of the levels of education and equally, another reason to see economic development in this region as sustainable and inevitable.

So, if education is the great communist legacy, then curiously this communist legacy is proving to be a key catalyst for growth and equally, the development of the residential property market and hence investment opportunities for investors.

Cheers
Neil

Ps. I have rumours that the Romania’s are regarded as the smartest foreign IT engineers (after the Indian’s). Anyone know where that rumour started? Or, indeed, if it holds any truth?

POSTED BY NEIL LEWIS ON MON 29TH OCTOBER AT 11:44 GMT
TAGS: Romania Property, Cluj-Napoca Property, Bucharest Property, Brasov Property
[ Comment On This Post ]
[ Back To Blog Home ]
BUCHAREST - CLUJ NAPOCA - AND THE GREATEST COMMUNIST LEGACY.

thanks, neil. much that's convincing in your opinion of romania's property market. i've heard from friends in IT that romania and bulgaria both produce excellent staff (and very effective virus originators). what about the very real possibility that romania (and poland?) may find their economic growth leading to inflation, and interest rate hikes?


POSTED BY DAN W ON TUE 30TH OCTOBER AT 16:19 Reply To Post
BUCHAREST OFF-PLAN?

Good article Neil. Its true that Romanians do seem to be more up and doing than some other countries i´ve travelled to. Theres no limit to how fast the place can grow, cos people are hard workers and have work ethic and good educational background. Take Spain for instance, I love the people and the country but the work ethic doesn´t seem to be here and can be awkward to do business efficiently in this country at times. Its no criticism to spain but this thursday is a holiday here so that means little will get done this week at all and productivity is so low! Not saying that Spaniards aren´t bright people but the warm weather and lifestyle here isn´t geared much to working hard and not many people in spain speak good english and even if they do they may not have confidence to use the english they know. I doubt we could say the same for Romania, as u have just pointed out. By the way, do PS plan to source anymore off-plan deals in bucharest? Its unusual that we haven´t seen any deals from bucharest for a while.. Does it have something to do with the fact that entry price is higher than people expect or desire or thats its simply impossible to source deals? For me a 90,000€ apartment in bucharest is a good investment but i guess prices have gone up a bit. Best regards Liam


POSTED BY LIAMVALENCIA ON TUE 30TH OCTOBER AT 18:04 Reply To Post
COMMUNIST LEGACY

I guess your article aims to stimulate discussion by throwing in a few contraversial comments. With regards football......football in Romania is almost a religion and played by kids in the streets everywhere. perhaps that explains why S. Bucharest won the European cup pre 1989 revolution. I seem to remember England was a good team in the 60's in the good old days.....jumpers for goal posts etc! My wife is a good example of a Romanian who taught herself English. This was not really a product of the Education system although I agree that Educational standards are high on lower budgets than the UK, but more a result of wall to wall American TV in the early 90s. As regards IT......perhaps the rumour emanated from Romania! On a more serious note, I have heard many stories about the pre 1989 regime and how the masses were treated like animals. My wife for example studied by candle light in the early 80s because the electricity was turned off by the state for days on end, even in mid winter when temperatures are well below zero. Perhaps ( and I hate to generalise) the real secret of success is the general hunger for a better existence when looking over at the lifestyle in the West.


POSTED BY ALAN RICHARDS ON WED 31ST OCTOBER AT 09:02 Reply To Post
EDUCATION LEGACY

Hi Alan Good points - it is hard to say why the eduction level in Romania is high (relative to GDP) and the key point is that 'it is'! In a way, I'm making comparisons to Spain. One of the reasons salaries are low in Spain (ave salary of 1,700 Euros per month vs 3,600 in UK) is because of the massive expansion in qualified people in the 25 to 35 year age group. This was partly driven by relatively high education standards during Franco's time - but also a boom in demand for education as people saw salvation and escape in studying. The key is that it has left Spain with a legacy - and will do the same in Romania. Cheers Neil ps. I agree that Spanish productivity is low - but so was the UK's productivity growth in the 90's. This appears to be how countries develop. I believe that you will see rapid increases in productivity in Spain in the coming years. pps. The Spanish are the hardest workers of wester Europe. 9am to 7pm days are typical for most people - and the Siesta time is rapidly becoming a sandwich at the desk! Sad, but true!


POSTED BY NEIL LEWIS ON WED 7TH NOVEMBER AT 12:26 Reply To Post
EDUCATION IN ROMANIA

Hi again, I thought I would add a few comments on this having had eight years experience of Romania where I have had a good understanding of the development of the Romanian graduate and postgraduate educational systems. Post 1989 it used to be the case that there were only the four main State Universities. To gain a place you ahd to pass an entrance exams. Standards were exceptionally high. Since that time their has been an explosion in University education with significant expansion through the private sector and the 'upgrading' of Colleges to University status. This is similar to what happened in the UK with the old Polytechnics becoming Universities. Just as happened in the UK in my opinion quality of education has suffered...but is still superior to that of the UK. As part of the process of European harmonisation promoting the mobility of labour there are a number of international agreements which promote the harmonisation of qualifications and training....see for example the Bologna Agreement which has already had the effect of reducing Romanian graduate education from four years to three years and ensuring that Masters courses are of two years duration rather than one. The overriding factor for me that preserves what Neil rightly calls the Communist legacy is the attitude of parents and the strength of the family. Parents believe that education will give their children a better future and of course children believe this too. It is usual to have a Degree and a Masters and many Romanians are sufficiently talented to study internationally. Doctorates are also part of the normal educational agenda for a significant number. So what is critical is this belief that education will give young people a better future. This belief has to be turned into reality hence the importance of foreign investment and European salaries to keep these talented people in their own country and build its future. What is also interesting about Cluj is the growing number of foreign students studying here. Why are Indians an dothers coming here to study medicine...an even IT? Going back to one of Neil's earlier questions about the course of the fact that Romanians are second only to Indians working in the field of IT in the UK....if you looked at the numbers as a petrcentage of the population or of graduates...Romanians would not be second...they would be in a different League all on their own! Kind regards Charles


POSTED BY CHARLES BELL ON WED 7TH NOVEMBER AT 14:14 Reply To Post
CLUJ IS NUMBER 1!

Hi Neil I like your football theory. Cluj has two teams. CFR Cluj are currently top of the League here in Romania. Unfortunately the other team is bottom of the League but did beat Steau Bucharest recently! How does that impact on your property investment decisions? I agree wholeheartedly with your comments about Romanian education. Go to http: / /www .ippr .org .uk /publicationsandreports /publication .asp?id=457 and you will find a report prepared in advance of Romanian and Bulgarian accession. It makes very interesting reading...the government totally ignored it of course and used accession as an excuse to make it even more difficult for Romanians to work in the UK (the requirement to have a worker accession card and unfair procedures for spouses). Go to page 24 at the top and you will find the following statement: 'For example, Romanian migrants working in the global IT sector are second only to Indians in their volume and many Romanian social workers, unable to find work at home, practise their profession in the UK.' I was responsible for those Romanian social workers..the authors jumped to the conclusion that they went to the UK because they couldnt get jobs here. They had jobs (although I spotted a number of young and extremely talented ones who got their first jobs in the UK) but the problem was that there was no job mobility; a declining NGO sector and extremely low salaries in the public sector. I used to refer to my social workers as 'bloody brilliant Romanians' because that's exactly what they are. The majority were graduates from Cluj and Iasi..Bucharest graduates tended not to be of the same intellectual quality. IT and social work are very different professions which I guess assists in demonstrating Romanian flexibility and diversity. I've attached some pics with some stories...every single one I took to the UK had a story! Kind regards Charles of Cluj The Upload Images button is not working! I'll post another reply...Romanian talent.


POSTED BY CHARLES BELL ON WED 31ST OCTOBER AT 13:34 Reply To Post
BLOODY BRILLIANT ROMANIANS

HI Neil and others Let's hope the Upload button works this time or I am writing this for nothing. When I started recruiting Romanian social workers the first group of five were interviewed by Suffolk in December 2002. All got jobs...and Suffolk were so impressed that by February the next year they spend three days in Bucharest interviewing. Later on that year in September 2003 I brought nine social workers over to the UK for interviews. I had three sets of interviews that week and all got jobs by the end of it including Ana. Ana is a Cluj graduate and at that time she had one year's post qualification experience. She was a bit of a monkey but I have the gift of spotting talent. Earlier this year she got promoted by Lincolnshire to a senior Team manager post with a nice salary in excess of 40 thousand pounds. Not bad for a 28 year old. The next example of Romanian talent is Elena pictured in the Moroccasn desert last Easter. Elena had graduated in 2003 and just could not get a job in Romania. She spent 9 months as an au pair in Belgium and contacted me because she wanted to come to the UK as an au pair. I asked her how she saw her future in 3 year's time to which she replied that her dream was to work as a social worker. I promised to make her dream come true and hired her as my PA. She moved from Iasi to Cluj and after 6 weeks cheekily asked me if she could have a little holiday in the UK. I could not refuse and when she came to the UK I happened to have two interview opportunities. I told the relevant Managers that I do not employ monkeys and that Elena was worthwhile interviewing. They reluctantly followed my advice and both Managers offered Elena a job necause they too recognised that she was talented. She now does a lot of court work for Thurrock; flies to Marrakech every six weeks or so where she has a Moroccan boyfriend. The last pic is Luciana a social worker from Bucharest.Luciana is a very good friend and earler this year she brought several mebers of her family to the UK for a visit. I met her Aunt who is from Cluj and works as an electrical supervisor on the Iulius Mall project here in Cluj and her cousin, Sorin, is regarded as the best geological engineer here in Cluj. So I hope these three stories - there are many more - back up your opinion that Romanians are highly educated and motivated to succeed! Regards Charles


POSTED BY CHARLES BELL ON WED 31ST OCTOBER AT 18:38 Reply To Post
BLOODY BRILLIANT ROMANIANS

HI Neil and others Let's hope the Upload button works this time or I am writing this for nothing. When I started recruiting Romanian social workers the first group of five were interviewed by Suffolk in December 2002. All got jobs...and Suffolk were so impressed that by February the next year they spend three days in Bucharest interviewing. Later on that year in September 2003 I brought nine social workers over to the UK for interviews. I had three sets of interviews that week and all got jobs by the end of it including Ana. Ana is a Cluj graduate and at that time she had one year's post qualification experience. She was a bit of a monkey but I have the gift of spotting talent. Earlier this year she got promoted by Lincolnshire to a senior Team manager post with a nice salary in excess of 40 thousand pounds. Not bad for a 28 year old. The next example of Romanian talent is Elena pictured in the Moroccasn desert last Easter. Elena had graduated in 2003 and just could not get a job in Romania. She spent 9 months as an au pair in Belgium and contacted me because she wanted to come to the UK as an au pair. I asked her how she saw her future in 3 year's time to which she replied that her dream was to work as a social worker. I promised to make her dream come true and hired her as my PA. She moved from Iasi to Cluj and after 6 weeks cheekily asked me if she could have a little holiday in the UK. I could not refuse and when she came to the UK I happened to have two interview opportunities. I told the relevant Managers that I do not employ monkeys and that Elena was worthwhile interviewing. They reluctantly followed my advice and both Managers offered Elena a job necause they too recognised that she was talented. She now does a lot of court work for Thurrock; flies to Marrakech every six weeks or so where she has a Moroccan boyfriend. The last pic is Luciana a social worker from Bucharest.Luciana is a very good friend and earler this year she brought several mebers of her family to the UK for a visit. I met her Aunt who is from Cluj and works as an electrical supervisor on the Iulius Mall project here in Cluj and her cousin, Sorin, is regarded as the best geological engineer here in Cluj. So I hope these three stories - there are many more - back up your opinion that Romanians are highly educated and motivated to succeed! Regards Charles


POSTED BY CHARLES BELL ON WED 31ST OCTOBER AT 18:40 Reply To Post
ELENA

Elena didnt upload so here she is. Another talented One.


POSTED BY CHARLES BELL ON FRI 2ND NOVEMBER AT 04:54 Reply To Post
ROMANIAN TALENT

Neil Just to add some spice to your footbal theory you should be aware that the Cluj women's football team are by far the best in the country. Charles


POSTED BY CHARLES BELL ON WED 31ST OCTOBER AT 13:42 Reply To Post
WOMENS' FOOTBALL

Hi Charles - that means the Cluj ladies team is like Arsenal - top of the league! This matters greatly, as I am both a proud father of two girls and an Arsenal fan. Currently, they are playing basketabll - but there is always hope! Cheers Neil


POSTED BY NEIL LEWIS ON WED 31ST OCTOBER AT 15:47 Reply To Post
GREAT POSTS CHARLES

Hi Charles Really interesting posts on Romania and Cluj - both here and elsewhere. Really whetting my appetite for the place. Perhaps I'll do some exploring soon. Huw


POSTED BY HUW ON WED 7TH NOVEMBER AT 13:19 Reply To Post
[ Comment On This Post ]
[ Back To Blog Home ]


 CONTRIBUTORS
  • Neil Lewis
  • Robin Bowman
  • Ben Greenwood
  • Noreen Lucey
  • Stanislaw Staromlynski
  • Brett Tudor
  • Panos Tsigaras

Subscribe for email updates
First Name
Last Name
Email

 BLOG POSTS
Oct 2008
Sep 2008
Aug 2008
Jul 2008
Jun 2008
May 2008
Apr 2008
Mar 2008
Feb 2008
Jan 2008
Dec 2007
Nov 2007
Oct 2007

Sep 2007
Aug 2007
Jul 2007

Call Property Secrets on: +44 (0)1270 539550
Email  
Password  
Lost
password?
You are not currently receiving our FREE newsletter. Enter your email to receive yours every Friday: