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Who will win the race to attract the most (and the right kind of) FDI? And what it means for property investors….

The impact of the crisis that started in the US sub-prime mortgage market has subsequently rippled through financial markets and institutions around the world.

Few people now doubt that the negative effects will leave any location's economy completely untouched. For some it may mean recession - even, perhaps, a depression. The pundits are almost as divided as ever, although more now seem to be in the Bear camp than ever before.

Probably a result between extremes is still the most likely outcome. Some economies will be harder hit than others and the length of the slowdown will be indeterminate.

But what is (almost) certain - judging by events in the past - is that when recovery comes, it will come rapidly and very probably as unevenly as the slowdown.

Key then for property investors is to be well-placed to take advantage of that recovery and to be invested in those markets that are most likely to emerge the strongest.

That's why a new report on European attractiveness to business investors makes extremely interesting reading and throws into sharp focus some insights into which economies will be winners in the future - and where property markets are therefore most likely to perform the best.

And, as interesting as the headline results are - which markets business investors favour - the reasons they select those they do is equally relevant when we try to spot those key FDI magnets of the future ourselves.

Future property buyers

And this is important because this is where the jobs will be created and the new middle classes (future property buyers) will be most active.

Ernst & Young's 2008 European attractiveness Survey questioned 834 decision-makers about how competitive Europe is on a global scale in terms of FDI, and which countries within Europe are doing well, how they see the attractions of alternative business locations, and the criteria that drive their perceptions.

What is perhaps most striking about the report is that despite the received wisdom, and the undoubtedly large investments going into India and China, "Europe's multinationals still rely on proximity and take advantage of competitive, modern locations in Eastern Europe's renovated cities such as Prague, Budapest, Warsaw, Bucharest or Lodz."

As oil reaches record price levels and shows no sign of falling significantly without a huge fall off in economic activity globally, that proximity factor carries an even larger premium than ever.

And, as the report notes: "India, often thought of as a direct competitor, or even a threat to the future viability of back-office operations in developed economies, is struggling to gain ground, falling back to third place in our 2008 ranking.

"Aside from China, Central and Eastern Europe are frequently cited as manufacturing location favorites (17%), and Western Europe wins a surprising third place.

"Europe's dynamism comes from its Eastern borders...and beyond. Central and Eastern Europe, including Russia and its satellites, attracts 28% of the projects and a heavyweight 58% of FDI job creation."



The new near markets

Interestingly, new near markets appear to coming onto business investors' radar screens.

"Patterns are changing fast. The main growth is going to Russia, whilst Turkey and the Ukraine are proving increasingly successful in attracting investment, In a slow year, last year's stars - Poland and Romania - are catching fewer labour intensive investments.''

The significance of this is threefold. While it's interesting that new markets are coming on stream, the fact that investment into them is primarily labour intensive investment indicates they are being chosen for reasons of cheap labour. That tends to be the initial investment phase.

And while it opens up a market, through cheap manufacturing, nowhere (not even China) can maintain its attractiveness based entirely on cheap labour indefinitely.

Eventually, any country in this category is a victim of its own success - as wages grow, they erode this labour cost edge.

So, it's no bad thing that labour intensive investment is moving away from Romania and Poland - both of which are focusing more and more on knowledge-based activities.

In Romania the huge success in the IT industry is a marker of this; similarly, high-end aviation and associated manufacturing is taking place in Poland.

Investment benefits take time

Even so, once that manufacturing investment goes in, whether it's labour intensive or not, it is not uncommon that the full economic benefits to the recipient country aren't seen for several years.

Plants take time to build, production processes gear up to capacity over many months. Jobs are added slowly.

The effects of car manufacturing investment in Slovakia - firmly in the high value manufacturing category - have only really been felt in the last year or two, and this is a good example of this investment effect delay.

In turn, the Slovakian economy is now one of the great CEE success stories, its current star performer, and the property market in Bratislava one of the most attractive right now.

"The results show a remarkable shift. ....... The most important driving force for foreign direct investors is to access new markets. And as Europe's economy slows, they are increasingly looking to thriving economies and competitiveness elsewhere.

"Today, business leaders see the investment world as multi-polar, with destinations such as China, India, Russia, and the Middle East, which enters the top ten ranking for the first time, now strong rivals to the traditional dominance of Europe and the US."

Even so, the top five countries for attracting FDI projects in 2007 remained the same - but Central and Eastern Europe countries rose quickly.

Who attracted what?

Countries and their total share of global FDI

US 12.5% (falling)
UK 11.1% (up)
France 8% (up)
Netherlands 6.8% (up)
China 4.4% (down)
Hong Kong 3.5% (up)
Russia 3.2% (up)
Germany 2.9% (down)
Brazil 2.4% (up)
Singapore 2.4% (up)
India 1.0% (down)

Continental Europe - 42% (down 1%)

The UK topped the job-creation ranking.

Europe is quite clearly still an active player, but less a dominant power.

"For the first time, Europe loses its historical, exclusive attractiveness leadership in our 2008 survey. Traditional FDI heavyweights (Europe and the US account for 58% of global GDP) now share the field with fast-growing global challengers."

But, much more significantly, the economic landscape of Old Europe, the survey shows, is rapidly changing, with the transformation undoubtedly more advanced in the UK.

What is being seen is a huge shift of manufacturing, a great deal of it high end manufacturing, from western Europe, eastwards.

The survey describes this as the two faces of Europe.

"....is showing two faces to global investors, and this makes it resilient. While Western Europe's potential attractiveness declines, Central European countries including new European Union members, and frontier countries, such as Russia and the Ukraine, continue to gain interest.

"Europe retains a considerable power of attraction and is ranked among the top three business locations by 75% of respondents.

"But investors seem also to be sending a strong message that their main interest lies in younger, more dynamic and competitive markets. This eastward transition, while evident in our attractiveness surveys since 2004, has become particularly marked over the past two years."

Where is the decline taking place in Western Europe?

Traditional industries.

In 2007, 30,527 industrial job creations were 'missing.' Four sectors are responsible for 60% of them: logistics, automotive, pharmaceuticals and industrial equipment.

"Together, these four sectors provided 31% of total FDI job creation in Western Europe in 2006. Their share dropped to 23% in 2007.

"New jobs in the logistics sector, the top industrial job contributor in Western Europe in 2006, fell by 84%, from 11,292 jobs to just 1,792 in 2007. The automotive sector, which used to rank second in industrial job creation, provided 2,865 fewer jobs, a 35% fall.

"Industrial equipment jobs were down 60% (2,730 fewer jobs), while pharmaceuticals industry hires decreased by 66% (3,413 fewer jobs)."

Job migration

So, where are these jobs migrating to?

The answer is clear.

"Central and Eastern Europe attracts 28% of the projects and captures 58% of all jobs created. In 2007, investment projects into Central and Eastern Europe grew by 15%, despite a 7% fall in job creation (against 29% fewer jobs in Western Europe and 18% fewer across the continent).

"While Western Europe continues to attract new FDI projects (72% of total European inward investment projects), more new jobs were created in Central and Eastern Europe.


"Indeed, 58% of jobs created in Europe were directed to Central and Eastern Europe."

The Czech Republic maintained its place, despite attracting 27% fewer projects. It moved from fourth to third place in the job creation table despite creating 14% fewer jobs than last year.

Russia leapt to fourth position for jobs created (+85%) and moved from 13th to 8th for number of projects (+60%).

Poland and Romania maintained their position in terms of number of projects. In terms of job creation, Poland fell to second, creating 41% fewer jobs than last year.

Slovenia saw the biggest growth in terms of job creation (multiplied by five) and jumped to 15th position in the ranking.

"How to" invest is becoming more important than "how much" for investors considering sustainable location options.

Survey respondents pay more attention to political and legal stability (54%) and telecoms infrastructure (51%) than labour costs (47%).

This places those countries of CEE that are either in or lining up as serious contenders to join the EU as those countries that will have lasting appeal to business investors.

Future focus

Those CEE countries that focus on infrastructure development, including telecoms, will be the winners in attracting new business. Those countries and regions that fail to see this requirement will have to increasingly rely on cheap labour to make themselves attractive - a far weaker strategy long term.

But the message is clear - the great migration of capital investment into central and Eastern Europe may be interrupted somewhat by the current aversion to investment risk, but the flow looks to be unstoppable longer term.

This then is where the new jobs and a new, growing spending power will continue to emerge - and dynamic property markets in turn.

Short term affordability issues among domestic buyers in some of those property markets may well cause a slow down in accelerated price growth along the way, but to focus on this would be a big mistake.


It would miss the huge potential for future growth that exists as productivity grows and wages rise fast. Just as importantly, we need also to stay focused on the tiny percentage of mortgage lending that still exists in most of these markets - a vital measure of potential growth.

A footnote on the UK

Amid all the gloom about UK Inc and the gloom forecast by some who seem to see the end of any kind of growth in the UK's housing market, it's perhaps worth bearing in mind that the country is still the star performer in terms of FDI. Its track record is really nothing less than outstanding.

The Ernst & Young Survey points out that "The UK is the undisputed leader of the European FDI competition.

"The country tops our 2007 ranking both in number of projects and jobs created. FDI projects into the UK grew by 4%. Although its market share was slightly down, the UK holds the largest-ever lead over its European competitors (19.2% market share in number of projects, ahead of France in second place with 14.6%).

"The country's performance is mainly due to its commanding share of service activities (24% of total service investment into Europe), especially in Greater London (52% of UK service investment). The UK dominates Europe's inward FDI in software (30%), business services (26%), and financial services (28%)."

But, along with this success, comes a rider - a very strong economic linkage with the US. Obviously, it's not necessarily a bad thing to be coupled with the world's dominant economy, but it does mean that the old adage (with a slight variation) applies - when the US sneezes, the UK catches cold.

In addition, the areas in which the UK is strongest at attracting inward investment are the very areas that will be hit first (and perhaps hardest) in a credit crunch induced economic downturn.

But, equally, it can be argued that as the US was first into the big slowdown that started in 2007, it will be the first out of it - including its property market.

That could well bode well for UK inc in the coming months and even - dare we suggest - the UK's housing market.

POSTED BY ROBIN BOWMAN ON MON 30TH JUNE AT 09:51 GMT
TAGS: UK Property, Eastern Europe Property, East European Property, CEE Property
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WHO WILL WIN THE RACE TO ATTRACT THE MOST (AND THE RIGHT KIND OF) FDI? AND WHAT IT MEANS FOR PROPERTY INVESTORS….

But, equally, it can be argued that as the US was first into the big slowdown that started in 2007, it will be the first out of it - including its property market.

That could well bode well for UK inc in the coming months and even - dare we suggest - the UK's housing market.


The US started falling mid 2006. 2 years of falls and still heading south.

On this basis the UK has at least 18months of falls to run.

There is no chance of the UK property market recovering in the 'coming months'.


POSTED BY TOM F ON WED 2ND JULY AT 12:16 Reply To Post
RE: WHO WILL WIN THE RACE TO ATTRACT THE MOST (AND THE RIGHT KIND OF) FDI? AND WHAT IT MEANS FOR PROPERTY INVESTORS….

I agree Tom. In fact, I have just written a piece on this very subject for PS which should be online shortly. My take on the US situation is that there are (albeit feint) signs of the start of a recovery, though the next three months or so will prove crucially one way or the other. If the US market downturn is bottoming, the UK will take at the very least a year to get to the same stage. We may be in a better economic condition (employment, etc), which means we should recover slightly faster, but I fear we still have quite a way to go before we can say the UK property market will even begin to turn around.

Tony B


POSTED BY TONYB ON WED 2ND JULY AT 12:43 Reply To Post
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Florida bites back! Signs of things to come? And perhaps a sense of perspective....

Here perhaps is some real perspective on the current state of the property market in the US and - if you follow one logical line of argument - also by extension the UK property market.

The Wall Street Journal is currently featuring a piece about how bargain hunters in the States are starting to circle in some of the areas most badly hit by foreclosures.

Deals are there to be done and some are spectacular - 40% and more off asking prices.

And, while some buyers are hanging back in anticipation of even more mouth-watering deals, it seems many buyers simply can't resist the kind of prices on offer. There is evidence of bidding wars over distressed properties and one agent describes how the showings they conducted tripled in February over the same time last year.

Near the bottom?

So, does this indicate that we are near or are nearing the bottom in the US, simply because the bottom fishers are becoming active? Could be.

Now there's no doubt that the US property market has been hit far worse than the UK's - so far.

Not so, in Spain's case, however, where the property market is currently being hammered on a US scale. The Spanish press is talking of falls in home purchases on the secondary market of about 35%. Total lending to home-buyers fell almost 28 per cent to €13.4bn. Anyone looking at the costas is going to find a lot of choice. No evidence of bargain hunters gathering there yet. But they surely will at some point?

In terms of the UK market, we've seen lots of evidence of some minor price falls, mortgage lending falling and even the BoE's Mr King has said he will be 'surprised' if real UK property prices are much higher in a few years' time than they are now.

Putting aside our faith in Mr King, few would disagree with that, surely. He added that such an adjustment in real prices would be a good thing - surely few would disgree with that either. There is no suggestion though that the medium to long term outlook is anything but positive.

So, if we believe the UK market will go where first the US and now Spain are going (two markets like the UK that have seen huge property price growth fuelled by cheap credit), then we may, in the US at least, see some glimmer of perspective about the so-called 'meltdown' we keep hearing about.

Why?

Because what really leaps out of the WSJ piece are the numbers.

Meltdown

It's often the case that the extreme pockets of the market are where the focus ends up - the huge price falls. These are what lead to talk of a 'meltdown'.

But when you look behind the rhetoric, things are a little less dramatic. The most distressed state is Florida - home to THE most distressed area in the US in terms of property price falls - the Cape Coral-Fort Myers metro area in southwest Florida, according to RealtyTrac of Irvine, California.

This is THE worst place in the whole, vast US property market, with a record 3,739 properties in some stage of foreclosure, or one in 84 households - that's nearly seven times the national average.

Average sale prices for family homes in Lee County, which encompasses Fort Myers and Cape, are down 17%.

That's bad, but remember this is THE worst. So, is this the meltdown we've been hearing about?

And the rate of price fall across the nation, in which the property market is regularly described as being in freefall? An 8% fall.

When you factor in all those huge discounted deals of 40% and 50% and suchlike are wrapped up in that figure of 8% overall, this starts to put matters in perspective, surely?

If this is a meltdown, it's not as we know it!


What is also very significant is that once the lending blockage starts to ease - as it will at some point this year - we are going to see a huge amount of hoarded money (hoarded by banks) aimed at investment through credit lines, and a lot of this is almost certainly going to head into property markets that look like they offer real bargains.

Where to invest?

Where else will it go? 8% down - even 17% - compared to what equities have done in the last few years is reassuring.

Now, while it may not be time to dip a toe back in the water of the UK market yet, because things will almost certainly get worse before they start to get better, maybe, that worse isn't really going to be so bad after all - even if it is still likely we won't see much growth in the UK for the next two to three years.

So maybe now - while sentiment is depressed and yet fundamentals are basically the same as previously - is the time to look at those markets that will really benefit from the pick up in confidence?

Those economies with huge potential for growth and which have previously attracted huge amounts of FDI. Which for any smart property investor brings us back to selected markets in central and Eastern Europe...surely!

POSTED BY ROBIN BOWMAN ON MON 31ST MARCH AT 21:41 GMT
TAGS: USA Property, UK Property, Property Investment, CEE Property Investment
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FLORIDA BITES BACK! SIGNS OF THINGS TO COME? AND PERHAPS A SENSE OF PERSPECTIVE....

Hi Robin

People are starting to look at the Florida market as a golden opportunity now with prices looking so cheap and the weak dollar.

In my view Florida will always be a good location. Its demographics are good with around 3,000 people moving to the state each day (from memory so open to corrections!), tourism industry continues to do well etc.

Some issues I would raise with Florida and more experienced investors in the market might be able to comment on this:
Buying in the right area for rentals – I would imagine property a lot of investors will be looking at will be dependent on the tourist market thus very important to get location right, in terms of areas that permit holiday lets and in particular short term lets. Running costs and county taxes are high I believe so important to get the rental right.

In my opinion, it might be time to start looking but I wouldn’t be in any hurry yet. After so much capital growth and price inflation in the US and particularly Florida, there is probably more depreciation to come yet and along with that more foreclosures.

Anyone looking at getting into the US market now?

Noreen


POSTED BY NOREEN LUCEY ON TUE 1ST APRIL AT 13:00 Reply To Post
RE: FLORIDA BITES BACK! SIGNS OF THINGS TO COME? AND PERHAPS A SENSE OF PERSPECTIVE....

I think the time will be right very soon, if not already, to look at places like Florida. Yes the mrket may not have botomed out just yet but when it does, say in 6 months time it will be too late as the signals will be obvious to everyone. Better to get in just before the bottom and be ready for the rebound.

Noreen you're absolutely right in what you say. I nearly bought 18 months ago but was put off by the bubble and the high property taxes but I think I'd put up with the latter now. It's just a question of the time to do the research.

I'm going to take a look at North Carolina when I go out there in June as that was quite a booming area and may throw up some bargains but I do think the right property in the right area of Florida will be a good bet now.

One final thought - I wonder how many of the forclosures are real "sub-prime" - wooden roadside shacks and/or mobile homes. I suspect quite a lot.
Huw


POSTED BY HUW ON TUE 1ST APRIL AT 22:44 Reply To Post
RE: FLORIDA BITES BACK! SIGNS OF THINGS TO COME? AND PERHAPS A SENSE OF PERSPECTIVE....

One thing to keep in mind on the US economic situation, while we have seen the credit crunch unfold the effect on the wider economy has yet to be fully felt. If this effect results in widespread job losses (likely at some stage) then further property market declines will follow. Such declines need not be restricted purely to sub-prime.


POSTED BY GEORGEH ON WED 2ND APRIL AT 08:17 Reply To Post
RE: FLORIDA BITES BACK! SIGNS OF THINGS TO COME? AND PERHAPS A SENSE OF PERSPECTIVE....

Hi George

I wasn't suggesting any further problems would be related just to sub prime, only that Florida has a significant element of sub-prime properties, which lead to the stats quoted above. As you say, it's really a question of judgement as to how far the market has got to fall. My view is that it will be near the bottom in the next 3 months which will be the time to start looking.
Huw


POSTED BY HUW ON WED 2ND APRIL AT 08:55 Reply To Post
RE: FLORIDA BITES BACK! SIGNS OF THINGS TO COME? AND PERHAPS A SENSE OF PERSPECTIVE....

Have to agree with Huw,

There is no doubt in my mind that the US has a long struggle ahead of it, however Florida is somewhat insulated from the pain because of the international tourist industry, Florida prices will recover more quickly than elsewhere due to speculative buying - based on the likelyhood of a fast recovery.

The problem is this way of thinking.

The problem I see is that people are basing their property purchasing decisions assuming that the tourism will rebound quickly due to international holidaymakers due to weak dollar, consider that the $ will not stay weak for long since the FED will have to raise interest rates quickish within 6 months to offset inflationary pressures by my reckoning.

Consider also that a weak US economy / global slowdown will result in a FALL in national & international holiday makers.

Consider also that prices are not cheap yet .... or even good value! Since we are talking of falls from the position of being massively overvalued.

I'd give it another 6 months, wait for the Bush government to indicate the rise of interest rates, - a sure sign that the property market has bottomed out.

Another good indicator will be the recovery of builders stocks and shares ..... usually preceeds the property market recovery by 4 months or so. Until then your money is better off invested elsewhere.


POSTED BY RICHARD ON WED 2ND APRIL AT 10:01 Reply To Post
RE: FLORIDA BITES BACK! SIGNS OF THINGS TO COME? AND PERHAPS A SENSE OF PERSPECTIVE....

Hi

It appears it's not just Florida!

Bargain seekers buy up Detroit foreclosures, reports that city's paper.

Investors from both the U.S. and abroad have descended upon Detroit, purchasing foreclosed homes in bulk, says the Detroit Free Press.
In February, home sales were up 49% in the city, which led the U.S. in the number of foreclosures last year.

Many buyers are snatching up multiple properties with the hopes of selling them back to investors to rent them out.

Homes in Detroit's "better neighborhoods" garner $850 a month. Many hope to later sell the homes and are betting that the local market will improve within the next five to 10 years. With so many foreclosures on the market now, "banks must sell in bulk so they don't get overwhelmed with property," says the piece.

However, closing on a bulk foreclosure deal with a bank can be tough going, according to the article. While investors may look to get homes at 20 to 25 cents on the dollar, banks holding Detroit properties are seeking 30 to 35 cents on the dollar.

Obviously, if you're looking at a market like Detroit, you are well advised to do your due diligence well, as parts of the city notoriously resemble a war zone!

But 30 cents to the dollar in the 'better neighbourhoods' is bound to attract interest.

Maybe, though, we're talking here simply about speculators?

cheers


POSTED BY ROBIN BOWMAN ON WED 2ND APRIL AT 10:44 Reply To Post
RE: FLORIDA BITES BACK! SIGNS OF THINGS TO COME? AND PERHAPS A SENSE OF PERSPECTIVE....

Hi

The National Association of Realtors (NAR) 2008 Investment and Holiday Home Buyers Survey was published this week and made for some interesting reading.

The report painted a picture of the property market in decline comparing figures between 2006 and 2007 - this we all know - however the interesting part of the report was the increase in foreign investors in the US.

It doesn’t come as any surprise that with the strength of the Pound and the Euro against the Dollar; and a large amount of cheap, distressed properties on offer, foreign buyers are helping to take up some of the slack left by the sub-prime crisis in the US.

It is the profile of the foreign investors that makes for interesting reading - the majority of foreign property buyers in the US are from Europe (33%) with UK investors (12%) making up the biggest percentage - the five most acquisitive nationalities investing in US property are: Mexico (13%), UK (12%), Canada (11%), India (6%) and China (5%).

The report also provided useful insights about UK investors buying in the US. They are predominantly lifestyle buyer with 55% wanting the property as a ‘holiday home’, with only 23% of investors who said their property was to be used as a rental investment and 21% planned to use the property for both holiday and holiday letting. Nearly two-thirds (64%) of UK investors purchased in the South of the country followed by the West (26%), Midwest (5%) and the North East (5%). A larger percentage of foreign buyers from the United Kingdom – nearly half – purchased homes in Florida than any other state, the report stated.

When financing their purchase, 33% of UK buyers paid in cash – which is higher than the average for foreign investors (28%). The only country that paid in cash more than the UK was Canada (47%).

So Florida again features as an old favourite but buyers from India and China are now starting to dip their toe in the US property market. This corresponds with our discussion yesterday about the notion that sustained growth in emerging economies this year could tickle the economic giants of this world a little?

Noreen


POSTED BY NOREEN LUCEY ON WED 2ND APRIL AT 11:08 Reply To Post
RE: FLORIDA BITES BACK! SIGNS OF THINGS TO COME? AND PERHAPS A SENSE OF PERSPECTIVE....

i also find the US an interesting market - not just because it's such a buyers' market but also because i think the dollar is likely to strengthen against the pound over the next year or two.

but just as in the UK, there's plenty of good data on sale prices and very little on rental yields. anyone come across anything useful, e.g. for locations in florida?

regards,
dan


POSTED BY DAN W ON FRI 4TH APRIL AT 19:21 Reply To Post
RE: FLORIDA BITES BACK! SIGNS OF THINGS TO COME? AND PERHAPS A SENSE OF PERSPECTIVE....

US is for sure a good time to buy at the moment but if you do then buy a foreclosure in an auction house not one in an agency window. More work but it means the price willl be wholesale not retail and currently there is plenty of choice to get what you want.


POSTED BY BULBASAURUS ON SAT 5TH APRIL AT 03:59 Reply To Post
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A racing cert? What a day at the races may tell us about investor confidence

I was distracted by an email from Ryanair today that was offering 1 million free seats if its horse Mossbank won the 2.55 - incidentally the horse came in 2nd.

My colleague told me it was slow to start off - reminded me of a few times I've sat on the runway on a Ryanair flight.

To get to the point - I have always felt that horse-races are a potential indication of a country's economic performance, measuring spending power and local confidence in the market.

I like to attend horse races so this type of fuzzy analysis comes easy.
I am in no way suggesting that horse-racing is directly linked to economic performance or house price growth, but I am saying that it is ONE of the ways I like to measure local market confidence.

For instance, I have been to the Galway races in Ireland on several occasions.
Over the past number of years the races have attracted more and more non-racing types, as it were people that were more interested in who was in the corporate tent than who was in the 3.15.

Each year the visitor numbers, along with the volume of helicopter traffic increased, and it became all about big bets and even bigger hats.

This is not an exact science - this is fuzzy analysis - I believe that property investment is not all about economics - it's also about sentiment and confidence in the market.

As the Irish economy boomed, investor confidence could be measured at the races.

I'm not saying that this year's Galway races will be a disaster due to the performance in the Irish economy - after all, horse racing is in the Irish psyche, but I am just putting it out there during the Cheltenham festival week to see if anyone else sees even the smallest method in my madness!

It's a bit of a long shot - and this year's weather will not have helped matters, but I will be watching visitor numbers at Cheltenham this year.

PS - Any tips would also be welcome!


POSTED BY NOREEN LUCEY ON THU 13TH MARCH AT 19:41 GMT
TAGS: UK Property, UK investment
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A RACING CERT? WHAT A DAY AT THE RACES MAY TELL US ABOUT INVESTOR CONFIDENCE

Hi Noreen

I think the Bear Stearns tent will be empty this year!

Cheers
Neil


POSTED BY NEIL LEWIS ON MON 17TH MARCH AT 18:03 Reply To Post
RE: A RACING CERT? WHAT A DAY AT THE RACES MAY TELL US ABOUT INVESTOR CONFIDENCE

You are probably right Neil,

The conclusions on my racing day fuzzy analysis are difficult to read ..

Betting on the last day of the races is supposed to have broke British records. It is estimated that around £300m was wagered on the final day, dwarfing last year’s mark of £255m on the Grand National at Aintree.

I'd like to say this is a sign of consumer confidence but I believe it was more down to punters making up for the race cancellations due to extreme weather conditions earlier on in the week!

Thanks

Noreen


POSTED BY NOREEN LUCEY ON TUE 18TH MARCH AT 09:16 Reply To Post
RE: A RACING CERT? WHAT A DAY AT THE RACES MAY TELL US ABOUT INVESTOR CONFIDENCE

.. or may be just trying to recoup their losses on the stock market?

:-)


POSTED BY NEIL LEWIS ON TUE 18TH MARCH AT 12:57 Reply To Post
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Property investment in the UK - Is the BTL market facing Armageddon?

The Homebuyer Property Investor Show 2008.

An interesting show this - one that doesn't seem entirely sure of its audience. Hence the slightly confusing full title - The Homebuyer Show and The property Investor Show 2008.


We don't have the official figures yet, but numbers appeared to most veteran show goers to be well down on previous years. Not surprising really given the amount of gloom in the UK market at least.

It's fair to say that speakers and exhibitors seemed to fall into three groups - those selling property related services; those effectively selling overseas locations; and those with a vested interest in being bullish on the UK property market.

As far as I could see the overseas location exhibitors sub-divided again (as they always do) - into:

1) Those appealing to serious investors looking for overseas growth markets and

2) Those offering holiday property locations with a bit of implied investment potential thrown in.

And it was the second category - the holiday home/investment location exhibitors that suffered most from the fall off in numbers.

Business was dead.

Again, not surprising really, considering this is probably the group we can say appeals to amateur investors - those who confuse investment with a dream home abroad. Nothing wrong with a holiday home, of course - but never confuse it with property investment.

People manning one particular stand plugging an especially hard to sell Med island holiday location were even seen virtually chasing passers by down the walkway!

So, what was left seemed to be a mixture of fairly hard-headed investors - those looking for serious opportunities in markets outside the UK in order to capture capital growth, and those who seemed to have a generally bullish view of the UK market in the long term. Most of the latter seemed to already be invested in the UK.

It was hard to find anyone out there who could pretend to be bullish on the UK market as of now.

Although probably about a third of those attending seminars addressing the issue said they'd be looking to buy in the UK in 2008, and roughly a third said they'd be holding.

Far, far fewer said they'd be selling. Quite what the others were planning is anyone's guess! They could probably be classed as floating voters.

So, in the light of this, one of the most interesting and best quality debates took place on the first day of the show and was packed - again, as we might expect, given the title: 'Is the UK Buy-to-let sector facing its Armageddon?'

The discussion panel consisted of Seamus Nugent of property developers Dandara, John Wrigglesworth, of Wrigglesworth Ltd, Ray Boulger of John Charcol, David Austin of Property for Life and Neil Lewis, our own CEO.

Much of what the panel said about the fundamentals of the UK property market were actually quite similar.

And, while Neil Lewis appeared to be the only bear on the panel, Neil I think would be the first to admit that he wasn't writing off the UK market, but talking about where the best opportunities lay over the next 24 months or so. And that isn't in the UK.

The rest of the panel unanimously saw 2008 as a time of opportunity - a time to buy in the UK. Only some 30% or so of the audience agreed with them, as a show of hands proved at the end of the seminar.

John Wrigglesworth described himself as at the optimistic end of the spectrum. While there was certainly a slowdown in the UK property market, the fundamentals of the market were the same as ever - it was just that funding had dried up.

(But isn't funding one of the fundamentals of a property market?)

John saw a huge distinction between the US and the UK markets and blamed the 'stupidity of the international market who can't tell the difference between the US and UK.

'People are not stretched in terms of affordability. This is not a structural economic problem,' and 'sense would prevail by the end of the year.'

(And yet, again, this is about sentiment, isn't it? And isn't sentiment as much an economic fundamental as any other factor? )

'Rents are rising because of affordability problems, prices are weak, yields are rising. This is a great opportunity to buy.

'And the credit criteria is only going back to where it was three years ago.'

Seamus Nugent essentially agreed with the view that the 'fundamentals in the UK are strong' and that the market there cannot be compared to those in Ireland or Spain where huge oversupply had taken place.

In fact, Seamus saw aspects of the credit crunch on the BTL market in the UK as positive. 'There were people who wanted to get into BTL with no money down. They're gone. Good!

'It is harder to get products for BTL, but there are deals for people who have the wherewithal.

'There are hotspots and there are places that are doing less well.

'But property investment is a long term punt, not a short term one.'

Now, where've we heard that before?


Seamus cited the fact that the UK was experiencing net immigration of 300,000 a year, that single households are set to double, supply is low and there will be increasing rental demand as well as affordability being a problem as great reasons to invest in the UK.

'30% to 40% of people rent in Europe. In the UK it's 10%. We'll move to the European model.'

And in the short term the view was that the banks would recover and lending criteria would ease after a period.

'Don't worry about the banks. Look at them - they're reducing risk AND raising the fees they charge.'

David Austin, of Property for Life, believed the UK was now a 'buying opportunity' and that the market would 'pick up by the end of the year.'

'We've got overbuild in some city centres, but land supply is drying up.

Developers have slowed their land buying programmes and the cost of building itself is going up. There are great discounts now, but they won't be around for long. Developers will stop building.

'The lack of supply makes me bullish long term.'

Ray Boulger, of John Charcol, gave an interesting insight into how the mortgage market was reacting to the credit crunch.

'Affordability is a problem for first time buyers.'

Talking of BTL mortgage products, Ray added: 'What we're seeing a lot of is that fees are being used to make up for a lack of rental cover on mortgages.

So, you might get a rate of 4.99%, but a 3% fee - and the rental required by the lender is based, of course, on the interest rate.

'But there are still deals out there suitable for most people.

'Lots of lenders will lower their LTVs by 10% - but that is purely for new build flats, not for houses.

'The government has insisted on density levels, so we are seeing over supply of flats in some areas - an example of the government interfering with the market.

'The mortgage market will get worse before it get better. But it's a great time to put in cheeky bids, look for distressed sellers and be unsentimental.

'Meanwhile, keep an eye on three month libor - that's key. It's usually around 0.16% above he base rate during the initial phase of the credit crunch it went to 1% above. Now it's 0.6% above. This is a good indication of the way the markets are moving.'

So, what makes Property Secrets and Neil Lewis in particular the bear among these bulls?

Neil's point was simple: it'll get a lot worse before it gets better.

'I don't think the UK economy is sound. 10,000 jobs are expected to go in the City . Two thirds of estate agents will be out of a job by the end of the year.

'Mortgages have dropped 31% for home buyers - but for BTL it was up as investors draw down on their mortgages to complete on new builds.

'The accurate reflection of the market are the figures for homebuyers NOT for investors.

'This is a sentiment driven phenomenon and that negative sentiment is having a very REAL negative impact.

'We've had nine to twelve months of negative sentiment and we're going to have more. My advice - steer clear of the UK market for at least the next 12 months.

'If the UK economy can maintain its attractions (to migrants), it'll be fine. In ten years we'll probably all agree.

'But, because I can see that the economy is going to get worse before it gets better I can also see that the discounts are going to get better probably in 12 months time.

'If you look at Spain, it is losing jobs and fast. Spain is not having a credit crunch, it's having a rapid slowdown of its economy.

'If you're in the UK market now and rents are going up - then hold on.
'But in the future we think we'll see a kite mark on mortgages - there'll be good and poor quality.

'Be careful, because that portfolio of 20 terraces in a northern city are going to be the sub prime properties of the future and rates will be higher for these properties.

'If you take the long term view, then maybe none of this matters - but the best opportunities are elsewhere over the next 24 months.'

And as the news out of the US and UK gets grimmer by the day, surely Neil's view is increasingly hard to argue against.

No one is seriously disputing the long term trend in the UK market or about the UK property market's fundamentals. So, the answer to the question posed to the panel is 'NO, the UK BTL market is NOT facing Armageddon.'

BUT the economic reality is what is going to influence the property market over the next year or so - not long term fundamentals.

So, whose view do you subscribe to on the UK market?

Buy, hold or sell?

 

POSTED BY ROBIN BOWMAN ON MON 10TH MARCH AT 15:12 GMT
TAGS: UK Property Investment, UK Property, Financing & Mortgages
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PROPERTY INVESTMENT IN THE UK - IS THE BTL MARKET FACING ARMAGEDDON?

Hi Robin

I had the pleasure of catching the second half of the panel debate and was impressed with the quality of the discussion.

Whilst I agreed with the panelists (and particularly) Seamus' argument of the long term view for the UK market however there is increasing evidence that more investors are leaving the market than investing in it.

I read today that the UK lettings portal Ezylet.co.uk found that some 19% of BTL investors would sell their UK property and purchase overseas should interest rates rise too high in 2008.

In addition to this, Savills Research revealed from its survey of 400 UK BTL investors (with 2,782 properties valued at £600m) that many would be prepared to buy overseas should pressure on returns increase.

I think this reflects the decline in confidence in the UK property sector.

On the other hand, there will be investors who can take advantage of the number of landlords leaving the market. There will be opportunities for those that can secure below market deals however I think this is the realm of the very savvy investor or professional property investor who has the time and resources to source these property types through auctions or off -market.

There's no doubt there are better markets that are currently giving greater returns that investors can be investing in at the moment.

Good panel discussion though

Noreen


POSTED BY NOREEN LUCEY ON TUE 11TH MARCH AT 14:57 Reply To Post
RE: PROPERTY INVESTMENT IN THE UK - IS THE BTL MARKET FACING ARMAGEDDON?

Hi Noreen

Yes, it was a good quality debate.

But what struck me was that a number of the panelists concentrated solely on the underlying mechanics of the UK market - immigration, structural shortage of properties, splintering households, etc - great, sure, for the long term.

But, and it's a big but - how does that make NOW a great time to buy?

I say this because I don't think anyone - really not anyone - can sensibly say they can be confident that the downturn in the West won't get worse before it starts to pick up. And it's this economic (yes, the credit crisis is now affecting economies), that will drive property markets over the next year to 18 months.

The US is almost certainly already in recession - it will be very, very hard for the UK not to be dramatically affected. First in, I suggest, first out. I think we'll see recovery in the US economy before we see it elsewhere.

That doesn't mean everywhere will be affected equally by any means - just that no where will be immune. Spain is in serious, serious trouble, for example. So is Italy, but for different reasons.

And yet, when we look at many of the CEE economies we can see that their strength (let's leave out the Baltics!), going into this rough period will mean a slowdown, but not a sharp fall in growth.

So, the point is this - longer term the UK fundamentals are sound - but why invest in the eye of uncertainty?

The adage goes that you're supposed to buy when there's blood on the streets. Well, there isn't yet blood on the UK's streets, so now is not the opportunity.

And if this is as bad as it gets, as most of the panel (bar Neil) was suggesting, then 2008 will be seen in hindsight as a false opportunity to buy in the UK, or at best , only a slight one.

I've also never subscribed to the blood on the streets adage. I think the US economy (and property market) will probably pick up in a year or two - and the UK's too. But I'd much rather avoid the blood on the streets and start looking to buy only when I can hear the ambulances are on the way!


POSTED BY ROBIN BOWMAN ON TUE 11TH MARCH AT 15:39 Reply To Post
RE: PROPERTY INVESTMENT IN THE UK - IS THE BTL MARKET FACING ARMAGEDDON?

Good advice, as long as you are out there listening for ambulances and when you hear them you can outrun them and the road infront isn't blocked with everyone trying to do the same thing.

You also need to have a very strong relationship with the A&E Team so that you get priority treatment or you'll be left at the back of the queue wishing you hadn't got caught up in the backlog.


:-)


POSTED BY SAVVY ON TUE 11TH MARCH AT 17:29 Reply To Post
RE: PROPERTY INVESTMENT IN THE UK - IS THE BTL MARKET FACING ARMAGEDDON?

Yep - this is the critical discussion - and I think one where we'll all be moving position as the economic issues unfold in the run up to the summer.

My view - currently - is that the UK is facing a bleak 3 year period of falling (moderate falls) employment.

I don't believe the UK property market will grow over this period.

Therefore, any deal you source in the UK would have to be really really good to be worth holding through a 3 year bleak deal.

Probably any property you already own is worth holding - because things will turn up strongly when the up term comes.

Probably - you'd be better to wait 12 months before investing anything new into the UK market.

As things stand - that's my take on the market. I know that Richard Davies has a even more bleak view as do some other commentators.

Cheers
Neil


POSTED BY NEIL LEWIS ON THU 13TH MARCH AT 05:20 Reply To Post
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Europe's own China

"Europe’s periphery has emerged as one of the most vibrant parts of the global economy – a fact little recognised by investors mesmerised by the emergence of China and India"

FT, 8th Jan http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/4f1867d8-bd44-11dc-b7e6-0000779fd2ac.html

How true is this?

This is a quote from the chief market strategist at Bank of America on the FT's site yesterday - 8th Jan 2008.

Well, I kind of want to say 'told you so'! And aren't you glad you have invested in these markets before the rest of the FT reading public?

But what is really interesting is that it is now becoming public knowledge that China and India have mesmerised investors into missing the opportunities in central Eastern Europe.

Why is that?

From BRICS to 'BRICEES'

Well, one possible (but false) explanation for why investors might have missed central Eastern Europe is because the opportunity isn't as good - but I don't believe this and nor does the Chief Market Strategist of Bank of America based on his recent article.

I believe that investors missed central Eastern Europe because it is a complex and diverse region and isn't as easy to prononuce as India or China.

As I argued in my recent End of Term Performance Report - the term BRICS (Brazil, Russia, India and China) has missed out the other most exciting (but also most stable and secure) region of central and Eastern Europe.

Hence, I propose that we should now talk about Brickies (BRICEES) and not just BRICS! (This also seems the most appropriate name given that we are interesting in property in this region).

It is much easier, for instance, to talk India - than it is to talk about the 12 new countries that have joined the EU in the past 3 years - along with as many languages and nearly as many currencies (Cyprus, Malta and Slovenia have now all successfully adopted the Euro).

Yet, this diversity is exactly why the region offers such opportunity. Whilst the Baltics have done their bit on property price growth for now - the focus has shifted to Romania and Bulgaria.

However, just as Czech Republic began a second wave of property growth last year, so Slovakia is re-entering the property price growth curve and will be followed by a second wave in Poland - in about 12 months.

The good news - is that many investors still haven't figured out where central Eastern Europe is - nor have they managed to stick any money there yet.

Hence, whilst these markets certainly registered excellent growth and are experiencing increased interest from fund investors - the region remains relatively untouched by foreign investors!

This would suggest that there is plenty more growth to come! But that you do need to know your Bucharests from your Budapests! And that is the sustainable advantage that Property Secrets can offer.

Cheers
Neil

ps. One last quote from yesterday's article 'Europe’s got its own China next door'

POSTED BY NEIL LEWIS ON TUE 8TH JANUARY AT 17:29 GMT
TAGS: UK Property, Slovakia Property, Romania Property, Property Investment, Poland Property, London Property, India Property, East European Property, Czech Property, China Property, Bulgaria Property
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EUROPE'S OWN CHINA

Hi Neil

Interesting quote from Martin Wolf writing in the FT about the challenges ahead for the world economy on Tuesday:

'Yet the remarkable fact about this turmoil is that emerging economies are emerging as safe havens: growth there is being sustained; and credit spreads have moved little.

'The apparent invulnerability of emerging economies to the US slowdown is noteworthy. It is duly noted in the World Bank's latest Global Economic Prospects.

'.......It is astonishing how widespread rapid growth has now become in the developing world. In 2007, for example, growth is estimated by the World Bank to have run at 10.0 per cent in east Asia, 8.4 per cent in south Asia, 6.7 per cent in eastern Europe and central Asia, 6.1 per cent in sub-Saharan Africa, 5.1 per cent in Latin America and 4.9 per cent in the Middle East and north Africa.

'The soaring prices of oil and other commodities make this picture of broadly shared growth yet more noteworthy. These have had remarkably little impact on global growth. It is far more plausible to view them as a consequence of growth than as a constraint upon its continuation.'

The growth momentum seems so strong that even if it is affected by a slowdown in developed countries - an effect I think is inevitable - there is plenty of capacity there to still see very strong growth.

One interesting area to consider is whether FDI into CEE from developed countries - the main driving force for growth - will slow if there is a sustained slowdown in the west, where most of the investment is coming from. I think this is partly how these economies are different to those of China, Brazil and Russia, which are being driven by massive trade surpluses.

The answer is pretty positive and I'll aim to have a look at this in a forthcoming blog.

cheers


POSTED BY ROBIN BOWMAN ON THU 10TH JANUARY AT 11:53 Reply To Post
RE: EUROPE'S OWN CHINA

Thanks Robin

yes - this re-enforces the view we had back in the Autumn that the credit crunch is turning the assessment of risk upside down.

Emerging markets are definately in!

Cheers
Neil


POSTED BY NEIL LEWIS ON THU 10TH JANUARY AT 11:56 Reply To Post
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Immigration is back on the political agenda – will it push some UK cities back into the Max Growth club?
So, the UK’s population is going to rocket from 60 million to 65 million within ten years.

Good or bad?

Talk about immigration always get bogged down by politics and prejudice. But, what about the property investor? What about the effects on the UK economy AND the property market?

In short – does an extra five million people put the UK property market back in the Max Growth league?

One thing is for sure – if the five million projection is accurate – it’s going to have a BIG effect on both.

Government plans to build 100-homes-a-day for 13 years are in addition to existing building plans. That’s the figure the government’s experts reckon is needed to fill the 35,000-home gulf between existing yearly building levels - of 185,000 new units - and the 220,000 extra households that will emerge every year because of increasing immigration and more people living alone.

Are those targets really achievable? Over 13 years? They’re certainly hugely ambitious. And who is going to pay?

But if these targets are achieved, what will they do to the UK’s housing market?

Personally I’m not sure there’s any sure answer to this. But I start from two premises.

One, those building targets are very unlikely to be achieved and
Two, immigration into the UK is overwhelmingly positive for the economy and therefore the property market, long term; in fact, more than this, it is not only positive, it’s vital.

The reason it’s vital was summed up in the first paragraph of the article in the Financial Times last week reporting on the population projections.

‘Pensioners will outnumber children in the UK this year for the first time ever, but higher net migration and changes to the retirement age mean they will be supported by a greater number of working age adults than previously expected, population projections showed …’

How many countries in old Europe can the second part of that sentence be applied to?

The fact is population patterns – demographics – are crucial to driving property markets.

But it is not just absolute numbers, of course. It’s much more complicated than that

What ARE important are :

• Numbers of people of working age relative to retirees (whose pensions and health care have to be paid somehow).
• Numbers of households – increasing in old Europe and increasing also in emerging Europe, even while national populations may be in decline.
• The growth of individual cities as migration takes place not just from poorer to richer countries but from rural areas or smaller towns to bigger metropolises where wages are higher and opportunities more plentiful.


Here are some fascinating charts compiled by Aberdeen Property Investors and which we picked up at the Munich Expo.

First, look at where working populations will decline and where they will rise.

Click on image to expand





On the face of it then, the newly emerging economies of Hungary, Poland Czech and Russia have problems. The UK is in a relatively strong position, as is France, Sweden and probably Spain; Ireland has a positively glowing future along with Norway.

Let’s look at another chart that forecasts jobs growth.

Click on image to expand






Red is good – pink is OK.

It doesn’t quite equate to the population chart above, does it? Suddenly jobs growth is strong in, among others, CEE, the SE and SW of the UK, the whole SE quadrant of Spain, Greece, bits of northern Italy and western France, and , of course, Ireland..


Now, let’s look at a forecast of where the strongest GDP growth will be.

Click on image to expand



Suddenly the whole of Old Europe (except for Ireland, although many would not class Ireland as old Europe), is gone. The highest GDP growth has moved strongly east.

So, if you accept these projections – which to be fair were made prior to the UK 5 million more people in ten years projection - do they make the UK a poor long term investment prospect compared to those high growth areas?

Yes.

And no.

It makes it what it already is actually. If you look at that chart above and concentrate instead on the pink bits (which will be a bit more of a red shade if the extra 5 million were added – these are the second highest GDP growth areas. The UK looks much stronger, well, England and a bit of Wales do. Which to my mind makes the UK property market what it is – a slower growth, bluechip (in parts), long-term investment location.

Member of the Max Growth club? Not a chance!

But while it lacks the fabulous growth (and growth potential) of central and Eastern Europe – and will do for a long while – growth may well be steadier.

What those population projections mean is that the UK has a far brighter economic future than many other old Europe countries and probably better than any of the major European economies.

This is not just about increasing numbers of people of working age, of course. It’s also about creating the conditions in which those extra workers can be absorbed by the creation of new jobs. And that is where the UK has won out over Germany and France for the last ten years.

These conditions AND the fact that there may well be an extra five million people in the UK in ten years – the overwhelming majority of who will be of working age – is one of the UK’s strongest points.

Research by the LSE and the City of London earlier this year came up with very clear results.

‘Twenty years of unprecedented migration to London from overseas has boosted the London economy and made it more flexible and resilient.’

The survey also found that immigrants – as we would expect – are good for the BTL business.

The study into how and where London’s 200,000 annual immigrants work and live ‘found their abilities employed in both high-skill City jobs and lower paid work in construction, hospitality and catering.

‘….. most immigrants make better use of London’s housing. Immigrants live in fewer households and in higher densities than Britons. The rental market, much favoured by immigrants, has so far expanded to cope with demand, allowing rents to remain stable.’

And the report concluded: ‘The majority of new migrants now arrive from a set of 15 countries, including Pakistan, France and Poland, compared with just six main feeder countries 20 years ago (Ireland, India, Kenya, Jamaica, Cyprus and Bangladesh).

‘Many of the immigrants are young (50% are aged between 20-30), over 50% were white and 20% were non-Christian including 10% Muslim. They share characteristics of relative youth, above-average qualifications and positive employer-ratings.’

Actually, the LSE/City of London press release said it all: ‘Immigration keeps London business afloat.’

To my mind, strong levels of immigration are ONE good indicator of a city’s potential for future economic growth (so long as those immigrants are economically active, of course). This is why New York and London are the world cities they are and why London and the SE still offer property investors a great investment location – long term you can bank on it.
POSTED BY ROBIN BOWMAN ON TUE 6TH NOVEMBER AT 15:29 GMT
TAGS: UK Property, East European Property, Property Hotspots, Migration, Immigration
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IMMIGRATION IS BACK ON THE POLITICAL AGENDA – WILL IT PUSH SOME UK CITIES BACK INTO THE MAX GROWTH C

an excellent, fascinating and encouraging post. many thanks. just the sort of story ignored by the mainstream media with their clamour for the latest economic drama (noise). one question: any idea about the two uncharacteristic regions of expected employment shrinkage in poland? dan


POSTED BY DAN W ON WED 7TH NOVEMBER AT 11:06 Reply To Post
SHRINKAGE IN HOUSEHOLDS - MIGRATION - POPULATION SHRINKAGE - AND BOOMING CITIES WITH ALL THE JOBS!

Hi Dan 'Population Shrinkage' is an issue almost as covered in prejudice as 'immigrants taking our jobs'. The key issues for property investors are 1. Shrinkage in households - massively increasing demand for property with the SAME population 2. Lots of people departing the countryside for cities or abroad (giving country wide reduction in populaton but moderate increases in cities - larger increase in key cities - but a country wide population reduction). (Note - nobody - not no one is proposing investments in the Polish countryside!!! Only the cities - and this is nothing like 'Poland's average' - because (unlike the UK where 85% of people live in urban areas - this is where only 50 or 60% of people in Poland live). 3. The cities are delivering huge employment growth. This is not on the back of large immigrant populations (as per mature countries such as UK) but on the back of female worker emancipation! (Such as has supported the Spanish growth and property price boom over the past 10 years). 4. Therefore, the population of Poland can shrink - and yet deliver massive price growth in key cities. So, we have got different dynamics driving different parts of Europe! It is confusing - for sure - but where there is confusion - there is massive investment opportunity for those willing to set aside their prejudices and think clearly. Okay - I'll stop! Hope this helps. Cheers Neil


POSTED BY NEIL LEWIS ON WED 7TH NOVEMBER AT 11:51 Reply To Post
JOBS SHRINKAGE IN POLAND

Hi Dan Thanks for that. Just to explain - we've had a little forum problem this morning and your post originally turned up under a post from Neil that related to another Blog! All very confusing - but that is why Neil is talking about population shrinkage and not jobs shrinkage which is what you asked about! I think there is a good explanation for the two small areas of Poland that are forecast to deliver lower jobs growth and I've asked our Polish expert - Anna Grybel - to come back on this, as I think she'll do a better job than me! cheers


POSTED BY ROBIN BOWMAN ON WED 7TH NOVEMBER AT 12:13 Reply To Post
JOBS SHRINKAGE IN POLAND

Those two regions in Poland are Opolskie Voivodship (light blue) and Świętokrzyskie Voivodship (dark blue). The first region is overshadowed by neighbouring strong, economic regions attracting investors – Silesia with Katowice and Lower Silesia with Wrocław. The official unemployment is also high there because many residents have German citizenship and work abroad, but are still registered as unemployed. The dark blue region has been traditionally poor region in Poland. Forest and mountains cover most of the area, so there’s no much room for developing industry and economic expansion.


POSTED BY ANNA ON WED 7TH NOVEMBER AT 12:21 Reply To Post
CITIES BEAT FORESTS

Hi Anna Thanks for this. To paraphrase you - you are saying 'invest in booming cities, not in forests or mountains'... ... I know this is stating the obvious - but this is what people who fret about Poland's country wide population statistics are forgetting... Cheers Neil


POSTED BY NEIL LEWIS ON WED 7TH NOVEMBER AT 12:30 Reply To Post
BREAKING IT DOWN

thanks, neil, robin and anna for rapid pesponses. this all supports a feeling i've long held: nations are not always a useful category of analysis. there is no 'UK property market', only a collection of many geographic markets within the UK, each behaving differently at any one time. a national average is of abstract interest. same for poland. and even within cities: there are parts of the london market currently as red hot as ever, others on the slide. seems similar in warsaw. but nice to see evidence of how many strong geographic markets are predicted to flourish within CEE over next decade. dan


POSTED BY DAN W ON WED 7TH NOVEMBER AT 13:01 Reply To Post
SPOT ON - PROPERTY IS LOCAL

Hi Dan Spot on - property is a local game! However, there are some useful things you can say at a national level - such as GDP etc... but it is worth remembering that this is principally a summation of the key points of growth (ie key cities) and doesn't necessarily include the trees! Cheers Neil


POSTED BY NEIL LEWIS ON WED 7TH NOVEMBER AT 13:05 Reply To Post
CITIES AND REGIONS

Dan I completely agre with your theory. National stats can be useful indicators, and certainly government characteristics (on a national level) as well as mortgage markets are important. As far as GDP growth and economic success, even smaller countries show big diversity. You're always going to have to look at the general state of a country first (politics, economics, and so on), but understanding that this is only a segment of the story is, as you imply, essential. So, it's really all about which cities - even cities within countries that may seem a little less than attractive in general for property investors. cheers


POSTED BY ROBIN BOWMAN ON WED 7TH NOVEMBER AT 13:10 Reply To Post
POPULATION

Robin, reeally excellent article - thanks. I've been fascinated in population stats since hearing a talk by Andrew Neil a couple of years ago. The fact is that there are a lot of countries, most of them the "old" European countries you refer to, who simply won't have enough working people to support the older population in 30 or 40 years time. I've since heard people say that this argument is rubbish as people will work longer and harder. However, there's a limit to how much this is possible, whether due to willingness, physical ability etc so I don't accept this argument. The stats for Poland are strange bearing in mind it's a catholic country! Does it also start from the base of many of its young people being abroad and/or make assumptions about how many will return? Do you have any view on this? Huw


POSTED BY HUW ON WED 7TH NOVEMBER AT 13:08 Reply To Post
POPULATIONS

Many thanks, Huw. I agree, the argument that people will work longer and harder is plainly nonsense. It just doesn't add up. The aging of populations is a huge issue that will affect not just 'old' countries, but many 'younger' ones. I use use younger to mean emerging. Look at China with it's one child policy. The Little Emperors are now 20 and 30-somethings. Who will support their parents - the ratio is at least 2 parents ot one child! That's without the grans and grandpas! Japan also has massive problems where almost 20% of the population are 65 or more already. German, too, has a big big problem. Catholic countries simply don't always have big birth rates. Look at Italy - one of the lowest birthrates in the world (and constantly angst-producing in the land where machismo was invested!) Spain is also pretty low (although I confess to not knowing the exact rate). I think it boils down to economics not religion. Decisions like how many children to have can be made when you have the means to decide AND when you start to question whether having more children is actually financially beneficial. Obviously, there are some exceptions to this - Ireland, I suppose. But I think generally the richer a country becomes the more its birthrate falls - at least in places where women are educated and given opportunities. Then, they tend to delay or opt out of childbirth more. I don't see why Poland, for example, should be any different. As far as new Europe and returnees goes - that's a fascinating question. I have just been discussing this with Anna in Crewe - who is Polish. She concludes that many people remain undecided about this question and I think that's becasue they don't need to decide. This is not like applying for a green card - once you're allowed into the US, you can't just throw it in and change your mind. Nor like emmigarting to Australia. Poles, for example, can come and go - the more professionally qualified they are - the more so. A job in Warsaw for two years, a move to London or Milan (where they pick up another language). This is the pattern for those well-educated, multi-lingual CEE citizens, in the future, I believe. I can use the example of asia where I lived for a fair time. You see lots of Chinese, for example,, who left to study and work in the US and Europe, returning to Shanghai or Beijing because they have language skills and international professional experience. They can earn more money! But they don't regard it as 'going home'. The next job may well be in Hong Kong, or San Francisco. It's globalisation, I think.


POSTED BY ROBIN BOWMAN ON WED 7TH NOVEMBER AT 13:32 Reply To Post
CATHOLIC TRANSISITION AND POPULATION

Hi Huw My experience of Spain is that the economy has been driven by women entering the work place for the first time (or at least entering interesting / powerful jobs for the first time). Based on what I have read - and personal experience - I would suggest that this has delayed the child rearing days by around 10 years. Hence, for a period - as this demographic changes works through, there will be a much lower birth rate. Then, once the shift has worked through - hey presto - the birth rate will suddenly revert to what were previously normal levels and everyone will start worrying about sea levels, limited hydrogen stocks or something else ...(property prices I hope!). Spain being a Catholic country makes it a good template for Poland. It also means that women were kept out of the work place for longer than had happened in more protestant parts of Europe - but that once women get access to work (and interesting work) they don't tend to let go and hold on tight to the hard earned rights. There are a lot more women in Spanish politics than in British politics at both a national and regional level. So, I think we are looking at a 10 to 20 year adjustment - which will then re-adjust itself. In the mean time, the new double earning capacity of modern couples will massively drive property buying power and habits in the cities and we'll get some big property price growth figures. Cheers Neil


POSTED BY NEIL LEWIS ON WED 7TH NOVEMBER AT 17:31 Reply To Post
IMIGRATION

I think UK will remain strongly attractive as long as the pound remains such a strong currency. For people wanting to earn and save as much as possible London is the most obvious choice in Europe and probably the world. I think it brings people here and it keeps immigrants here as well, often for longer than what they originally intended. I think a lot of immigrants view London as a place where