Hi Martin, To set the record straight there is no "norm" in Romania for calculating the price psqm, and companies selling developments can use the figures on dimensions in any way they please as long as they indicate how the numbers are calculated. For sure some companies do there best to promote on the basis of including built area instead of living area and so the only real way to make a comparison is to trawl through the figures and make your own calculation.I am sure that PS have included this in their due dilli before releasing their report.

[I thought I'd just copy over what I wrote under the Cluj thread into this one.] Charles in Cluj compared prices there with Bucharest, but there, acording to Charles, prices are for internal area. To compare them with the current City Lights project is not comparing like with like. City lights is on offer for 1,130E per square metre. But that money is paying for a) total built area b) balcony c) common areas (in an average case, 9m). For example, a 57m2 flat (internal) has a total meterage of 86m2. If you only count the internal meterage, then the 86m2 flat I mention (no 12 on the list) is not on offer for 1,130E/m2 but rather 1,676E/m2, viz: 322,000RON (not inc VAT) / 57.15m = 5,643 RON / 3.36 (Ron>Euro rate) = 1,676E/m2. So, it depends what we're comparing here. If other developments in Bucharest use the same calculation, fine. Moreover, I don't have a problem per se with 1,676E/m2 - it sounds pretty similar to Prague prices (ie 1,200GBP or 44,000CZK per square metre) but in my mind, which is still rooted in Czech and Poland, it's not 'really' 1,130E.

Hi Richard you cannot ignore terraces when working out price psm across devlopments. As long as the terrace is sensible size and not out of proportion to the size of the flat one would normally attributes a value of around 50% of the internal area. RON has had a pasting over the last few days (3.48)which is good as this means prices are now 3.6% cheaper in Euro terms asmy understanding is that prices are fixed in RON ( right PS?) . Given that Romanian property prices are referenced off Euro this improves the deal terms somewhat.

Latest Euro/RON graph to Close of Business today

Also, be careful comparing off-plan prices in Romania with secondary market prices. The quoted size of secondary market apartments is simply internal area (as I understand it). There is none of this 'total built area' malarkey. Also there is no VAT on secondary market apartments whereas there is on new apartments, although this is rarely included in the headline price per m2.

Hi Charles. I am just starting out and have the most of my property in Czech Rep, because of finance and LTV. Are you not tempted to spread out into Romania due to the potential growth? What is your average LTV in Czech Rep? Do you predominately stay in Prague? I would be happy for you to get my mail address off Martin or one of the others at PS, if you wish to discuss further. As always, if I am not at the party I feel as if I am missing out..

Thanks Brendan, I would be delighted to exchange e-mails. I am @ the seminar tomorrow night too, the first PS one for me. Actually I am already in 2 countries I have 3 units in Berlin and 1 in Avenium. Finance is at it's limit just at present, although I also invest in the stock market so things can change with the right moves that way! I think you couldn't have made a better choice to start with. I bought my 3 in Berlin and it was through a really good sourcing company who provided quality units in excellent central locations- my locations in Berlin have many similarities to Prague and I estimate I am up 30% on the price I paid, which is outperformance for Berlin. With hindsight I might have out more into the Czech Rep as Germany, although undervalued is rather cumbersome and bureacratic, and although it has unquestionable potential, turning of the market is more akin to turning a juggernaut! Because PS only works with new builds, and there are few in Berlin, I think they will look in CEE for many years. I do think of adding mostly in the Czech Rep. I thought the HK offer was a little overpriced, although undoubtably a good location. I would love another deal in somewhere as good as Prague 7 or across the river in Karlin (P8) but we would have to see. Finance in Germany is quite hard going and only reaches about 60% in practice from German banks. Of course buying off-plan is not so bureacratic, but probably the fact that I bought already in 2 countries means I want to not extend that too much at present

Just a word of warning - I mentioned Pipera to several Romanian colleagues whilst in Buchuresti last week, and they all independently said : "Don't go there". Their reasons were : 1. It's an (ex)swamp. Ceaucescu drained it, but post-revolution they switched off the pumping station because it was too expensive to run. 2. There's big problems with some existing properties in that area and subsidence. 3. The area is known to flood. 4. It's in the middle of nowhere with bad roads and a lack of facilities. I haven't visited myself, so this is all hearsay and opinion, but I suggest it would be worth double-checking whether the proposed location is affected before investing. Andrew

Hi Andrew, In response; a year ago I was told by a number of Romanians not to look at any developments outside the centre of the town because Romanians wouldn’t live there, this has been proven to be shown to be wrong. Likewise the information that you have been given is out of date. There is no way that companies such a s Vodaphone, HP, Renault, Microchip etc would build there main offices in a “swamp” likewise developers are not as a group stupid and there are a lot of houses built in the area. There is a case to say that some of the buildings built a year ago were not built to a very high standard, example of this is the Houses built by Impact in the North of Bucharest and all the paint and plaster is coming off them. We don’t work with Impact. The post revolution comment shows how out of date these comments are, there are a number of lakes in the area, with the development of the roads came new drain, as this whole area is new and used to be fields. The transport links are there with both a Metro and Tram. With regards to facilities they are beginning to appear, until there was people actually living there, there was no demand for them and no one to keep them in Business. To the North is the American school, and the British school is moving from the centre of town to beside this. Opposite the school there is a new development called King Arthur castles, this is a childrens theme park, shops will follow and I met the developer of a new shopping centre in Pipera last week. It is a new area that will have the best jobs in Bucharest, Romanians are only just getting used to the changes that are happening and any change from what they know takes time to get used to, hence they are only just starting to buy off plan now as they have now seen some of the units finished. Everyone is entitled to there opinion, however in this instance I am confident that it is wrong. I spend most weeks in Romania, purely there to look at property, a like look at everything and only pick very few, I know the districts of Bucharest well and believe that Pipera will see strong growth, with excellent rental demand. Supply is far less than demand and with demand only likely to increase due to more offices and therefore more people working in the area, traffic in Bucharest terrible, people want to live close to their work. Kind regards, Simon