I don't know anything about Palace Heights as it is in a diff area and diff developer from what I understand. Yes we did have a penalty clause for late delivery - 400CYP per mth but the problem we had was the Developer saying it was 100% complete when it clearly wasn't eg no elect or water amongst other things. at our meeting with the Developer on so called 'Handover' he would swear it was finished even when your own eyes can see it's not. Also he magically produced an Architect's Certificate saying 100% complete for everything even electrics when there wasn't even any electricity supply to the site or meters installed. The certificate was dated Nov 06, but we have documentary evidence that he didn't make his formal application for the electric supply until mid Feb 07 - even more infuriating was that PS went along with this and didn't question it, telling us all to arrange final payment, also the Solicitor supported the Developer and not us despite us all telling them it wasn't complete - it was a appalling. The bank will hold back your final payment if you ask them to so you can go and check if it's finished and you are happy with everything. There are some people who live out in Cyprus who are offering the service of snagging and inspecting property on Investors' behalf. The Developer finds them a bit of a pain as you can imagine but you may be able to get Sacha to give you their contact details. I would not leave things in Cyprus without either checking myself or employing an Agent to do it for me. The stage payments are not so much of a worry it is the completion that is the biggest hurdle.

I have read some comments in the forums. Some positive (money has been made). Some negative. I am yet to use PS for sourcing. They do not appear to be comprehensive enough with snagging and other after care. I was hoping to source deals through PS (in the UK and CEE) and let them deal with the problems that arose (that is why we use sourcers). I have purchased in other countries before and had to deal with the cultural differences and lack of workmanship. It is NOT worth the hassle. It is not just about making money, it is about improving the quality of life, for me. (I appreciate that it will not necessarily be hassle free, but....) I am busy with other things in life. I would be very grateful if you could give me your views on this matter. Please can you inform me if I should have placed this question elsewhere?.. :-)

Hi PS Ben. You said this on 16th March: 3) As mentioned, it is proving difficult to get accurate reliable data on our Cyprus deals. We're actually quite close to having this and plan to publish in the next couple of weeks, if not sooner. Are you any nearer yet? Jill

I can only speak of our experience in Cyprus, definitely cultural diffs and poor workmanship which seem to be common in that country. PS did not offer us an 'after sales' service and their liability stopped at Exchange of Contract. Noone came out to check what was delivered at Avlida on completion and did not do any snagging. After a few strong emails from my wife we did get a reply offering to look into the issues we raised but this was far too late and we had dealt with most of it by then. Luckily we had 2 mths out there to drive the completion and get quality improved but it was such hard work. I have heard that things are better in the other CEE countries as they have more rules and procedures in place. I am not sure what sort of service PS offer for after sales in those countries.

Hello Brendan, PS advertize their form of investing as Hands off and Hassle free. In my experience, the hassle factor is very great, and the hands off approach would be disastrous in the markets they operate in. You need to keep on top of everything yourself, and constantly chase everybody involved. I have taken 4 deals with PS, and the hassles associated with these deals have dominated most of my free time (and a lot of my employers time) for the last 2 years. We are told by PS that we are pioneers in these markets and that we should focus on the capital gains - well, the gloss has worn off that message for me. Going into these markets with PS (and I suspect any other source/sales organization) will definately not improve your qulaity of life, unless you are doing this as your main occupation

Hi Mike, What specifically were the hassles that took up so much of your free time? Was it legal issues, mortgage issues, snagging, letting?

Working day in, day out with developers, letting and management agents, lawyers, material suppliers and kitchen fitters in the Central and Eastern European markets, it is clear that making money for no hassle is simply not possible. If it was then everyone would be at it. Property investing will always have hassles, particularly in the setting up stages. It is the scale and quantity of these hassles that we aim to reduce. I believe this is a message that has always been presented by Property Secrets. We have buyers that we have persuaded to do more research as we have felt that they did not fully understand what they were buying in to. The hassles will also be multiplied by the number of different countries your portfolio covers. This is why we endeavour to provide a single point of contact through our Client Service Team to help you manage your investments. We have partners that are continually improving and as we instil better working practices and migrate to a real time IT system we will do all we can to minimise the effort necessary on your part. We can not yet offer support for mortgages and payment to the developer but all aspects of fit-out, snagging, set-up and letting are within our scope. The reason why we offer an after-sales service is to make the ownership easier than it would otherwise be and this is the question that you should consider. You can do it yourself or you can use our services. I am not saying that by going through Property Secrets will be hassle free but at least you will have a team working for you, giving you the information to help make the appropriate decisions. regards Oliver Watts

Oliver, It is the disconnect between the sales hype and the reality that is getting people annoyed. If you say hassle free or hands off or any such similar words when you sell your services and the reality proves to be the opposite then you are bound to upset your customers. It's like everything else that appears in the Investment Reports. We don't need the sales hyperbole, in fact it's patronising to a lot of folk when they see it time and again despite the stick it gets on the forum. Peter

I have to agree with you Peter. I have bought 5 props in CEE with PS, and I certainly have gained some white hairs because of the hassle involved. The latest being 'crossroads', the management co. can't go in to fit the kitchen because my purchase contract was sitting on the developpers desk and he forgot about it, so mortgage was temp.declined, no funds, so...i am waiting. the 'Legends' one apt is being fitted with a kitchen, but the other one is waiting for an 'invite' from the developper before kitchen can be fitted as the broker and the lawyer didn't communicate! Re:Repy 'Prague' Oliver you mentioned the kitchens we could buy froom PS in an earlier txt, but in fact the kitchens are included on this one, the problem was the washing machine. Obtaining a mortgage in a CEE country is just painful, they are 30 years behind both in products and mentality. Yes,like all foreign countries that are unknow to us we will face difficulities, but I assure you I hadn't expected so many and with so much hassel! However, we will fight on, but plse emphasise these issues on your sales brochures.At least then nobody will be going into these deals 'blind'.

Ben you posted the below on 16 March I believe 3) As mentioned, it is proving difficult to get accurate reliable data on our Cyprus deals. We're actually quite close to having this and plan to publish in the next couple of weeks, if not sooner. There are quite a few requests posted since then enquiring where you are with this. I have not seen anything myself from PS yet on this or did I miss something. Could you let us know where you are with this Thankyou