Oliver

Thanks you for your post. It is a shame that your organisation has let things go this far before deciding to communicate.

Whilst not opposed to the HTH offer it would be nice not to feel constantly bounced into making financial commitments against seemingly arbitary deadlines. I have posted elsewhere about communicating what decisions are required, when and for how much - this could be taken as constructive comment?) From a personal perspective I feel that this way of doing business is not helpful. Your post has come through quite late in the 2 week decision window, and there still seem to be gaps.

PS Commission ?

Previously asked by Dan on 06/06/08 - not sure if this was ever answered, do so and it will be cleared up

Contract:

Is it reasonable / sensible for investors to commit non-refundable money without sight of a contract. I'm told it falls under the LCS contract, yet I have no idea of the agreement you have, on my behalf, that I am paying for. In broad terms a kitchen will be delivered, and they have the capability to do so quickly. So what if they do not exercise this capability and take six or seven months ? Penalty arrangements presumably exist on both sides ? Would you make a commitment on this basis ?

20% discount:

I think this statement at best requires clarification, and at worst is misleading given that it expires on 30/06/08 - for Platan investors at least. I'm advised that a smaller discount is currently being negotiated for those committing after this date. Is this 20% for everyone all of the time, or only for a limited period when you are offered. The documentation refers to prices (20% discount) being fixed unitl the new year that may be withdrawn. From what I can see unless you commit immediately you lose it. True ?

Deadline (in the case of Platan)

This seems to be totally arbitary, and frankly unreasonable. This seems to be more aligned to the commitment between PS and HTH - it is invetors who will be making this commitment and fulfulling PS promises. I find this a little offensive. If PS are certain that this is the best deal ever that investors will flock in droves tothen why not commit yourselves with your money ? I understand you make a financial commitment to a developer when negotiating deals prior to launch. Why should this discount only be availale for a short period of time ?

Rgds
Mike

Oliver Watts (i-PA) RE: Poland Kitchens
Posted: Jun 24 08 10:08

If you still feel that there are further questions that you need answering, please ask them in bullet form and I will answer them one by one.

Mike Welch RE: Poland Kitchens
Posted: Jun 27 08 15:01

Summary of questions asked

* PS Commission ?
* Contract ?
* 20% discount ?
* Deadline (in the case of Platan) ?

Is it intended to respond to any of these in the near future ?

Rgds
Mike

Oliver,

I have to agree with the previous posters. The biggest sour point on the whole purchsae of mine in Westland Court 2 was the cost of the kitchen. This had made me think twice about investing in any further PS deals.

I work in construction and have built a fair few apartment blocks and no way is the price we are paying reflective of the cost to purchase from a supplier.

With Rednet's, HTC's and your mark up it is pushing the price of these units to a rediculous level.

Hi, I also think the kitchen prices are much too high. Also the fact we have to pay a large deposit, for a kitchen we do not know the specification for, there is no contract nor do we have a definite price! The kitchen prices are based on the room area, in the case of a kitchen/dining room, it makes the price more expensive for a smaller kitchen!
Is anyone making alternative arrangements?

Dear all,

Commissions - i-PropertyAssets do sometimes receive a sales commission from the supplier but this will vary by development and by market. It is not always a possibility. Our first responsibility is to find you a supplier with a good product at a good price.

Contracts - You certainly will receive all the necessary paperwork with invoices and receipts to be able to account for your kitchen costs. We have a partnership agreement that states that all services and products must be delivered in a timely manner. Kitchens are a difficult service because they are usually the very last thing to go into the property. They are therefore dependant on others completing their jobs at the right time. Any delay culminates with pressure on the kitchen provider. I do however think that we could incorporate financial penalty clauses for all of our partners and have been discussing this at length to cover kitchen installation, handover and rental activity.

The 20% discount - comparison prices have been provided to demonstrate the market level and I have detailed our offer price. The example of this is a 1 bed kitchen retailing for 24000PLN is able to be bought through the iPA service for 19,140PLN. Please be aware that even if you miss the early payment plan you can still achieve a roughly a 12% discount on market rates.

Deadlines - Please be aware that suppliers came to the negotiating table asking to increase prices. Labour costs have risen but material costs have gone through the roof and both final finish and kitchens were being questioned. By demonstrating our scale we were able to reduce the prices to the absolute minimum, but only for a limited period, and only if we could demonstrate client’s commitment. Suppliers asked for a 25% deposit which we managed to reduce to 10% and made the offer available for a month so that investors could take advantage of the low prices. Yes, after this low period prices will increase by 10% but they will still be 12% below the market price as previously stated, much more below market price in the case of final finish. We launched as many developments as we could to enable you to take advantage.

i-PA take our responsibility for sourcing very seriously and spend a huge amount of time assessing all claims of better products and cheaper prices. As I said in my previous post, I have yet to see a better value for money offering than the one that we are presenting in Poland for both final finish and kitchen.

All the best

Oliver Watts

Oliver

I will leave others to judge if the commission question has been answered in a straightforward and transparant way or not.

Contracts:

A vary basic rule in my book is don't sign anything you have not read or do not understand.

Whilst I am delighted that contract details may be available, this is after a non-refundable deposit has been parted with - remove the non-refundable part and I would have less of an issue with it.

My concerns over a lack of client protection in regard to over-run and deliver do appear to have some foundation. Is this matter being addressed ? Unclear where ipa might be going with this.

Alternatives

Our receptionist at work has developer friends in Poland and mentioned a large supplier in Poland, Black Red White. Were these one of the suppliers investigated and discounted ? If so how did they compare to HTH and the other five mentioned in your post of 24/06/08. They also do furniture as well as kitchens.

I would have to say that her thoughts on a price of a kitchen does confirm the view that there are much cheaper options available - "obviously you could lots of money on a designer kitchen". Whilst there is an issue of comparing like for like, there is a more basic question - is a top end designer kitchen the most appropriate way forward for each development ?

Mentioning a development beginning with P it is an apartment, not a hotel ! How much difference in rent are you likely to get with an 'inferior' kitchen ? Especially if the suggested strategy is for short term rental. Are they going to spend their time marvelling at the kitchen or enjoying the beach ?

Kind regards
Mike

I never did get to speak to Oliver, being as it were one of the "angels". Clearly we are both too busy! Yes he did phone (twice), but later than he said he would and we missed each other. I've still got a host of unanswered questions.

But here's the latest, which, I doubt will ever be resolved to our satisfaction - but could anyone tell me why it takes a month to install a kitchen? I've looked at my published schedule and it says work will start on the 17th August (1 week after handover), and will be completed by the 18th September.

I've had kitchens installed in a four bedroom house - the fitters have ripped out the old, and put in new (not starting with a blank canvass) - and they've done it in two weeks.

Thank you for your post on this subject.

Your development does not complete for a further 12 months and therefore an estimated four week turn around from installation to completion for the whole development is used purely as a guideline at this very early stage.

Approximately 3-4 months before kitchen activity commences we will be able to get a finer time frame in place from the Kitchen Supplier. All clients will be informed of via their My Investment Page, on the i-PropertyAssets Website.

If you have any questions or queries please direct these to your dedicated Development Client Co-ordinator Karen Lynch on 01270 539 573, who will be able to assist you.

Kind regards

Sarah-Jayne

Mouldy you'll find that by using the iPA service it takes much longer to get apartments ready to let than doing your own thing. There are many examples discussed on this forum of apartments still to be finished months after some have already been rented. Having fallen into that trap myself I won't again.
Huw

Thanks Huw, so who can you recommend for kitchens, finishing, tenancy etc (Warsaw). I can't afford to fall into any more traps. I'm spending too much time trying to get out of them. It's a jungle out here!!