Am I alone in being confused and somewhat irritated by the LCS proposition not being related to what was promised in the original prospectus? PS has changed its business model to try to get longer term repeat revenue out of managing the properties it has sourced. I have no problem with that whatsoever and it's generally probably not bad value. What I do have a problem with is services being offered, and therefore charged for, which were part of the original deal. To be specific:Marina MokotowAccording to the original prospectus the price I am paying my units includes white finish including kitchen and bathroom. The specification for these has already been made. However, much of the LCS agreement relates to sourcing and managing suppliers, assessing quality and reliability, negotiating discounts, co-ordinating payments, kitchen planning & sourcing, managing white finish proposals & quotations etc. It seems to me that all I require is a snagging check once everything is finished (including white finish and kitchen and bathroom). I would query therefore why PS are charging the full rate for LCS on this development and are advertising as extra services things which were originally included in the deal. Nad Luckami: I have had a debate with PS about what was and wasn't included in the price. I have accepted that it wasn't the intention for kitchens to be included even though they were included in the price. They say they just wanted to illustrate the likely cost and as long as I'm not paying twice I don't have a problem. However, they said in the prospectus that details of kitchen suppliers would be provided when appropriate. They now say the prospectus didn't say this would be free!Also on Nad Luckami the LCS service mentions needing to arrange bathroom fixtures but these are stated as being included in the specification in the prospectus. I understand that this is a new service which was launched after some of the earlier deals were completed. I also think it was sensible to try to simplify the offering by re-launching. No doubt future deals will not include the elements which LCS will offer later on. But the LCS service for the earlier deals does need to be tweaked on a deal by deal basis to match what was originally promised and not to charge extra for elements which were included in the deal. I also have one issue with the LCS contract itself at paragraph 4 where it states PS will "not normally take direct payment of fees or commissions from the Client's suppliers...". I would be much happier if this was less ambiguous and stated that PS will "not take payment of fees or commissions from the Client's suppliers unless specifically disclosed to and agreed by the Client in advance". It's not that I don't trust PS because I do but this would avoid any room for doubt and protect both parties. The word "normally" leaves room for suspicion. Does anyone else have any such issues or mis-understanding with the LCS service or is it just me?! Also, Neil, do you have any comments as I haven't had a proper answer from your customer service team as they are "wriggling" on these issues? Huw

Now appreciate this wasn't removed intentionally! PS, please can your technical people put the spaces back in my post as it's very difficult to read as one amorphous paragraph! Also, if you could re-post your original reply I'd appreciate it. Huw

Huw, Your post formatting has now been corrected, again apologies for the problems with the post disapearing, and any inconvience caused. I will liase with Oliver Watts about getting his reply re posted. Thanks for your patience. Regards D.Busby

Please allow me to explain to you and others why we are offering the Local Completion Service. Firstly, the term Local Completion Service is a bit misleading as the service starts immediately after exchange and operates throughout the build cycle, all the way through to the point when you have a 'key ready' finished unit. Not only at the completion stage. When Property Secrets started offering investment opportunities we asked for a finder's fee for all the research, negotiation and assistance required to help you reach the point of exchange. While we were still relatively small we continued to help our clients with a whole host of issues ranging from mortgage application problems through to valuations of investments. We have experienced substantial growth over the years and due to the size of our business, the number of developments and the number of clients that we now have it is proving impossible to provide this free service. Furthermore, many of our clients were then asking for regular updates on the progress of developments and were experiencing issues during the completion stages and final fit out. To respond to this requirement we launched the Tenant Ready Phase, which has been redesigned and re-launched as the new Local Completion Service (LCS). Every investment that we now launch offers the LCS service. Those developments that are midway through the cycle are therefore required to either take up the service or not. To gauge our client base we tested this by contacting investors on a handful of developments. We were pleased to see that 90% of our clients wanted the service. Due to this we decided that the default position would be that clients could opt out rather than opt in to the service. We realized that this may come as a surprise and have offered a discount for swift payment and a 15% discount on second and subsequent units for owners of more than one unit. There is also a lower price for developments where the main contractor is fitting the kitchens. This is termed as LCS Lite. We have estimated that it could cost in excess of £3,000 if you wish to finish your unit yourself. This estimate is derived from the cost of flights, hotels, phone calls and many more expenses but not the amount of time and hassle you would have to undertake. Huw, I have checked your file and see that you have paid the lite price for your units with a 15% discount on the second. I hope this provides more clarity regardig your understanding of the LCS. regards Oliver Watts

Oliver, thanks for your response (again!). I understand the service you are offering but I still take issue with your charging for services which were clearly part of the original deals as outlined in the original prospectus. You have talked about the potential cost of finishing the unit yourself but actually on Marina Mokotow for example, bathroom and kitchen is included in the original price so as I said in my original post, all that needs doing is final snagging. Perhaps I'd be less exercised about it if you had tailored the sales pitch and the contract for the LCS service on Nad Luckami and Marina to take out the bits that are already included. After all you seem to have recognised the need to make allowances by reducing the price (which I hadn't previously realised). I do find it hard to reconcile the position where you charge a fee for finding the property but then leave the investor on their own after exchange. I think you should routinely be providing updates on progress (which to be fair you do seem to do - but will this stop if I don't take LCS?) and I don't see why you shouldn't remind when payments are due. It can't be that onerous and again you have been doing this to date. Also, the lawyers recommended by you seem less than efficient in doing this on some occasions. Ultimately if you make the limits absolutely clear in your prospectus it isn't a problem. However, this wasn't the case in the earlier investments so it's a bit rich to abandon people half way through or charge a fee for what was implicit in the original deal. So it seems it's a legacy issue which will work its way through the system but in the meantime I do think you should be treating your older investors a little better. Huw

Huw, I too am somewhat irritated and confused as to the issue. When I agreed to purchase property at Garden Heights, Krakow I too did on the understanding that PS would provide a reasonable level of support right up to completion and not just up to exchange of contracts. This certainly was not made clear that this was to be the case. I am also particularly irritated by the E mail sent out stating I would be invoced for the LCS and that either I need to pay up or sign a statement (effectively releasing PS of any further responsibility). In my opinion this is sharp business practice and not what I expected to happen. Is PS saying that we have 14 days from when they invoice us, to decide on this? Is this a once and for all election? Can I change my mind? Not made clear in the communications. I still contend that the (substantial) fee that I paid PS st the start entitled me to the use of their services throughout the purchase process. I am most surprised that there has not been more dissatisfaction about this thread. Come on who else is not happy about this? Brian

I can see it both both sides and i've had several discussions with PS over this. PS are suffering from their own success in this area. Their focus was on the deal setup and the fantastic work up front setting up the deal and doing the due diligence. Unfortunately, after that it all fell appart. Since i first engaged with PS, all my feedback has been about poor communication. After the prospectus is out and you sign up, it all goes quiet. there were no updates, no reporting, just a mail when the next fee was required. to address this, PS have been building up their service department and also introducing things like the LCS and PLS. however, they still have a long way to go. to answer your question - no, i dont have an issue with the service. for the fees involved, i think its excellent. the issue here is marketing and communications. they should have bitten the bullet and seen the existing deals through or just come clean and split the costs. then all new deals should have had it built in as they are doing. the big issue is that they have introduced it mid way through purchase and its annoying people because they feel they are paying again. if it was sold in a different way, we would all be jumping for joy instead of complaining. my view is - hang in there. PS are still developing and we are feeling the growing pains but i still havent found another company that comes close to what they offer.

Tony, your views appear pretty close to mine. Clumsy communication and PS should really bite the bullet and complete their obligations on existing deals as laid out in the prospectus and make it clear what's on offer on new deals. Huw

I have had a similar reaction to recent emails to those expressed in this thread. Effective communication is an issue and sending out these blanket generic emails causes unecessary confusion, concern and ill feeling both for PS and the investors. Regardless of whether you feel this cost is justifiable on older deals (in may case, Future City phase 1), the implication that you sign up and pay (within 14 days) or forego all rights to subsequent support/communication is WRONG and conflicts with the honest and open style that is the normal PS approach. It would help, at the least, if we are not forced into making a pressured decision. I would appreciate being able to choose whether to take up the LCS (including the telephone support) in my own time. I still concur that PS does not have many real rivals - however, they are catching up and anything that appears to suggest sharp practice will damage the PS brand and their reputation for honesty and integrity.

Can PS provide an update and response regarding timing please? Otherwise I shall be forced to nag Karen and others at PS for an answer.

I agree with Alex and Tony. The issue here is that PS should honour their agrement to provide support up to completion for existing customers and implement the change for new customers only. Glad to see that 'having to decide within 14 days' is considered unacceptable by others. Please can we have some response on this from PS. The silence is deafening!