Hello Are "Property Secrets" planning to issue a note or a book on Russian real estate in the near future? The local market is now mature, stable, offers a wide range of investment opportunities,and mortgages are widely available although at high rates. I find it very odd that PS went to extreme lengths to cover even the tiniest and the most insignificant markets in eastern europe (kosovo and Albania to name a few), while systematically ignoring the biggest market of them all, which is also the one that offered the maximum growth over the last 7 years. A book would be highly welcomed. C.

Hi Claude I have asked our Editorial Director about this. Hope to get back to you soon with our plans for this market.

Hi Claude I too would love to see the same on Russia. I'd hardly call Russia stable though, neither economically, legally nor politically. I can't imagine it would be suitable for many British investors. Minimum required for entry to the central Moscow market is about $500,000, and with interest rates at 11% / 12% I think this alone would be enough to deter most. Dan

Guys Here is the response from our Editorial Director, Robin: "We’ll be looking at selected Russian city markets in the near future. But we are unlikely to produce content such as a book that tries to reflect the WHOLE of such a diverse market that has very widely varying risk profiles." So...keep checkign back.

Hi Claude Yes, Anna in the editorial team - a Russian speaker - is carrying out research on selected markets, as Ben indicates. However, 'stable' and 'mature' are certainly not terms we currently associate with key Russian markets - Moscow, St Petersburg, perhaps Kazan and Kaliningrad. Russia generally is extremely risky politically and economically. There is only a very small middle class,certainly who are active in the property market. Prices in Moscow stagnated last year and then fell in some locations. But, as I say, we will be looking at these markets and giving a view on whether we believe there are selected opportunities. Regards

I know a bit about Russia and I have to agree that Russia poses far too much risk to invest money into. I just could not trust that I would have a legally protected asset at any point in time. Even if the economic projections are good for the country there is just too much risk by holding personal property. If you really want to invest into Russia, I would do it through funds instead so that you avoid having to deal with legal ownership issues and local laws.

Dan, Brett et Al, I challenge anyone of you to produce credible documented facts, as of today, regarding the legal "risk" of ownership in Russia. All the opinions I read in your replies so far are non-facts and well out-dated. I have personally met expats working over there who have happilly purchased properties with no legal problems of note. Morever, off-plans bought in year 2001 have trippled in value. These are hard facts, not mere projections. Granted a few developers had been dodgy and went bust, residential mortgages were pretty much hard to get until 2 years ago and so on. I am not saying that Russia is everyone's cup of tea. But then nor is Romania or Ukraine. As for Robin's claim that "There is only a very small middle class,certainly who are active in the property market", well I beg to differ as the high number of transactions, as well as the high average price per square meter in the Moscow region (well over $4000 per square meter) speak volumes about the market. My point is, I feel that PS could have explored the russian option far more seriously, possibly digging up an off-plan or two for investors who are happy risking money seeking very high return. Failing that, PS could have at least produced a few reports and notes regarding Russia for us to be well informed. This is not the first time I raise this issue on the forum, yet for some reason, PS keep informing us on every litte country, or soon-to-be-country, in eastern europe including Ukraine, Albania, Macedonia and even Kosovo, with no reference whatsoever to Russia. C.

Claude, any country in which the rulers can overnight change their policy according to political expediency with no challenge from alternative political parties, no free press no freedom of opposition etc has to be extremely risky for investment. Add to that political murders, blatant attacks on other countries web systems, withholding of energy supplies from countries who dare to stand up, total intransigence towards the west etc etc and you'd have to be mad to invest in Russia. Ask yourself whether it might suit Putin or his successor to act against foreign property owners in the same way as he has against foreign interests in the oil and gas industry, companies who have paid big bucks to put in the infrastructure and who are now being rowed out on totally fabricated pretences. Not probable but certainly possible. Huw

Claude, you're so combative that if it weren't for your obviously un-Russian name I'd suggest that were actually Russian. For your info, I am an ex-pat in Moscow. Yes, of course there are some foreigners here who have made money in property. All the ones I know bought 3/4/5/8 years ago when property was substantially cheaper. It's now considered to be astronomically expensive, and beyond the aspirations of nearly all Russians....not that many are aspiring to it in fact cos most would sooner have Porsche Cayenne and a Prada bag than a nice flat. Here's just a few of the reasons why Russia is about as high risk as it gets, above and beyond what's been outlined already in this thread. - In Moscow there is currently a bill passed allowing the government to compulsarily purchase your home if the building it's in has been identified for renovation/replacement. So, given that everything Russian is based on the most extreme levels of bribing and corruption you can ever imagine, what that means is that developers bribe State Duma officials to force repossession of blocks they wish to develop...at knockdown price. This can happen to anyone, and if it does there's no recourse, either thro the courts or anyone else. - The entire legal / justice system is bent and corrupt at every level. A colleague of my PA's Dad (Russian) just lost a million quid on a property, after discovering that the person they paid wasn't in fact the owner. This is rife. - There is no established or reliable banking system here. Most Russians lost either a fortune, or everything in the financial crash of '98. As a result they don't trust banks, and most keep money in cash at home, under a mattress, literally. House / flat purchases are frequently therefore carried out in cash. My friend sold his flat here recently, and his buyer turned up on the day with $1,000,000 in a sports bag. - The property industry is full of sharks here. You don't want to be carrying around that kind of money in Moscow, even for an hour on the way to the bank. On an almost weekly basis there are armed hold-ups on the Moscow Ring Road in which businessman are relieved of hundreds of thousands of dollars they happen to be carrying to the bank. - The price of property here is out of all proportion to what Russians earn. Even in Moscow, which in the bigger picture of Russia is a bubble, the average University qualified educated mid 20's/ early 30s Russian earns about $1500-$2500 a month. With a flat in the centre costing $800,000 upwards, who are you going to rent to? - Most young Russians live at home with their parents well into their 20's. When they get married Granny will often move in with Mum and Dad, and the kids into Grannies. - If you have the misfortune to have to go to court for anything in Russia, you don't have a chance of winning, because if your opponents are Russian the judge will have been bribed to find in their favour. As a foreigner you're excluded from bribery activities in any sphere of Russian life, other than traffic police. - It's virtually impossible to open a bank account here, unless you have legal registration here, and to do that you need to live here. - There are currently about 200 people on the outskirts of Moscow living in a hostel on a little publicised hunger strike. They're doing this to embarass the government, because all lost everything to dodgy new-build developers who took their life savings and then folded their construction companies. The governement has refused to take any action on this, or pass laws which would make it impossible for developers to do this. - It's impossible to do almost anything in Russia, unless you speak Russian. This is 100 times more the case than places like Poland or Czech Republic. - Russia's relations with the West and Europe are in freefall. The major issues both sides have with the other are stacking up at a rate of knots - Litivenko, US missile shield, Russian arms sales to Tehran and North Korea, oppression of free speech and killing of journalists, no real democratic system, Chechneya, NATO expansionist policy, gas issues, uncertain political future, the list goes on. Add into that, that Russians have a chip on the shoulder about Europe and the West, bigger than Russia itself, and the future ain't looking rosy...least of all as a property owning foreigner. You still keen? I've got property in 4 different countries, and even tho I love Moscow life I wouldn't touch property here with a barge pole. When it was a fifth the price a few years ago maybe as a high-rish punt, but definitely not now. D

Huw, You are missing the point here. Note that you havent stated one substantiated hard fact, you are merely rephrasing the common media hysteria towards Russia. Some of your statements regarding Russia's aggressiveness and assertiveness easily apply to the US and UK governments. It is all a matter of appreciation as we all know. Granted I wont raise my kids in Russia, but then I wont raise them in Romania or Bulgaria either despite their newly found EU status. We are talking investment opportunities here and not personal appreciation of a political situation cause that is irrelevant My point is this: There has been tremendous growth in russian real estate sector and a lot of people made a lot of money out of it. Opportunities were there, the risk might have been high but so was the return. It might not have been everbody's cup of tea but then some of us might have been very interested. I personally would have appreciated if PS threw in an article or two about it, and why not a book, just like they did for the rest of eastern europe. As far as risk goes, Ukraine doesnt spring to mind as being a "safer" place to invest in compared to Russia. Also, I am still waiting for some hard facts regarding systematic disappropriation of foreign owned residential private property in Russia cause basically thats pretty much THE risk that everyone around here seem to be certain of. Well I doubt that u'd find any, simply cause there isnt any. C.