Hi All As a British resident in Romania I would like to compliment you on the in depth nature and quality of this report. You have got it right in all but one respect. I skimmed the report tonight but was very shocked when I got to page 69 where when describing Cluj (my home) you assert that when compared to Constanta and Brasov Cluj is not pretty 'and you cant go bathing in the sea'. Fly to Cluj with Wizz Air and look down as you approach Cluj and you will see mountains and lakes. If you miss what is below I will take you up in a private plane and you will see the chain of lakes - tarnita, Somesul Cald and Rece, Fantanele and Draganalui. You will see mountains and forests. If on the land you might see bears. Look up into the sky and you might sea an eagle circling for it's prey. Take a left turn at the junction of the Transilvania Highway as it will enter the city; take a left turn in Gilau and within a few kilometers you will start a Transilvanian adventure. Leave the airport and go through the new industrial corridor; go through Jucu and take a right turn in to Bontida. Search for Bontida castle on the internet. In front of the castle is a beautiful Hungarian church built in the 1700s. Prince Charles has an interest in this. Go into the centre of the town and look up at the beautiful architecture. In Piata Unirii you will see that the statue that you will find by following this link http: / /ro .wikipedia .org /wiki /Pia%C5%A3a _Unirii _din _Cluj -Napoca Go down the page and you will see more. Go down towards the river and on your right you will find the statue of Mihai Viteazul. Follow the road ropund past the cinema and Macdonalds and you will come to another cathedral and the recently repainted Theatre. Go up to Lomb or Feleacu both are hills either side of the city - the views are breathtaking. I've posted three pics one from Lomb looking over the city and one looking over Lake Fantanele. Take a look at the botanical gardens - far nicer than the one in Buchaarest. Sure Cluj is swimming in foreign investment - oh if those investors put a small contribution into restoring old Cluj to it's former glory. Sure the concept of town planning is out of control and building of apartment blocks goes on 24 hours a day in a typically Romanian haphazard way. But there was a time when Romanians built in a planned way - drive through the beautiful Muresanu area of Cluj or find a map of the old city. I know Brasov and it's very pleasant. Constanta I do not know but I know what happens in seaside cities (and I know stories about Constanta) and I know what happens in cities that are ports. But I'm not letting Property Secrets get away with suggesting that Cluj is not pretty. I rest my case and let you the audience decide on this one! Charles Bell

Hi Charles, Cluj is the centre of our universe!! You´re dead right about many things in Cluj but the feeling I got from Cluj was that it lacks a main pedestrian city-centre such as Brasov and Prague has. Of course its beautiful but it could be better. It also needs to start marketing itself better for future so that it becomes known on tourist map. There are lots of cars passing around near central cathedral in Cluj and the fact that it doesn´t seem to have an extensive central pedestrian area YET like Brasov, was the one thing I didn´t like about cluj. In fact it is one thing that may impede its tourist growth to challenge say Brasov in future unless they re-plan central area. As you know, all is well organised and laid out in centre of Brasov, i.e - cinemas, squares, eating areas and mountain backdrops all easily reachable. On the other hand, I couldn´t say Brasov is a business centre or anything like it. My opinion of Brasov was a beautiful city-centre with mountain backdrop and great resort nearby - Poiana Brasov. Some parts of the city are really ugly though and I can´t see it being any kind of business centre but i´m not an expert on Brasov, only judging by what i´ve seen. Cluj doesn´t seem to have a real city centre so to speak. You have to walk around and find the nice areas. Having said that it has great and trendy places to go out in and i´m also a big fan of cluj. Its central park is a beautiful place and also botanical garden etc. As you said you have to move about, go to places like Botanical Garden etc. I have no doubt that surrounding area must be lovely. i.e outskirts and villages. the Andrei Muresanu area has lots of houses and is very picturesque and apparently the price of land in that area is very high and lots of old people are hanging on in there in houses which they may sell in future for vast sums along with land house sits on. By the way Charles, I asked PS for your contact details and they refused to give them to me. Therefore, when i go to Cluj in 2 or 3 weeks time I´ll send you my details or tell you what hotel I´m staying in and if you would be kind enough we could meet up for a coffee, take care and thanks for your interesting posts. I´m getting ready to buy a place in cluj now. I want to enter at rock bottom end of market, and if that means buying a 35,000 studio in an area like floresti then thats what i´ll do. Even though PS´s deal in cluj was good, i need to find a cheaper deal cos won´t be able to commit 60,000€ to a flat there. When i was there in august prices ranged from 30,000 to 60,000€ for one beds depending on area but i fear that prices at lower end may have risen a lot in last 3 months. Ideally i would have liked to have got in earlier but i´ve had major problems raising finance so it´s been out of my control. i also have some local Romanian contacts in other businesses in cluj (restaurant business)etc, All the best, Liam

Hello Liam It's nice to know you are a fan of Cluj. It remained a hidden jewel until earlier this year. As far as I know PS are the first but not the only property investment company marketing it in the UK and internationally. Traffic in thriving Romanian cities is a real problem but it is also an indicator of Romanians love for conspicuous consumption. If you want to see the newest, biggest and most expensive cars come here! Bucharest is gridlock of course but here in Cluj there may be time for lessons to be learnt. Ring roads are being built and built very quickly. As well as the Transilvania Highway there will be the 6 lane Nokia Superhighway connecting to it. The eagles in the sky whisper to me of plans (and this is not definite) for a Flyway which will form a bridge across the centre of the city. I'm sure this will happen but the question is when? We agree that Brasov is very nice but general opinion here in Ro is that it has been 'done'. From an investment point of view the greatest potential for future growth is here in Cluj cos it has much further to grow. From 1989 until 2004 Funar was the Mayor and his nationalist attitude did Cluj no favours. Learn about the history of this city and you will find out that I am not the first to consider it to be the centre of the universe. Founded by the Romans the history of this part of Europe confirms my view. I'm not surprised that PS would not give you my personal contact details - a Forum rule I'm afraid. However rules can be discussed and modified. I was not asked if my details could be passed on and I would have no objection to this. I'm not going to try and sell you anything. I'm just in love with this city and want to share my views with PS members...if PS believes in Cluj as I do I am it's best advertisment. But let's look at this in another way. If 36 individuals were lucky enough to get a peice of the action in Jucu they are going to get to know each other.That's OK cos PS have done their business but are we really still in an age when freedom of communication is monitored and controlled as it was in Ceausescu's time? Time for a policy review? All the best Charles

Hi Charles, My friend from Cluj says similar things, that Cluj always has been rich and prosperous and that the new mayor is getting things done. It has such strong Hungarian ties too. The former mayor was bad for business and messed up an opportunity for Coca-Cola and other big multinational companies to set up in Cluj a few years back. However, this new mayor is well-connected and pro-business. What i love about Cluj is the trendy nightlife coupled with history and all in a lovely natural setting with of course well-educated and friendly people. Its visible that the city is changing day by day. When i arrived by train, they were refurbishing the whole staion and a section of it was closed. Its just one example of the work being done. Well, who knows what will happen in Bucharest and Brasov, there must still be some good healthy growth left but entry prices are now higher. I feel Cluj will not be as good a place to invest in a year or so either, as all the profit-hungry speculators and investors will have the food well and truly digested and settled in their bellies at that stage! Everyone is really talking up Romania but you probably know better than anyone what the real situation is like there. I also visited IASI and I bet you it will also be a dark horse in the future. I´m quite enthusiastic about going to Cluj in a few weeks but I am a bit afraid that I may have already missed the boat, I don´t know if there are still some basement level 1 beds available there. It´s funny how your own bank can make your life impossible while waiting almost 3 months to get a mortgage sorted out! But thats Spain with the ´mañana´ way of doing things.. I guess Romanians are more up and doing, which is probably a good reason to relocate there too. I found the level of customer service and general attitude of the people really good when I visited. With regard to flats, my philosophy is to buy the best I can for a cheap entry price cos I know from experience that everything in every area goes up in price sooner or later and there are always people to buy at lower end of market. Furthermore its very expensive both in Poland and Romania to fly there, do-up the flats, legal expenses, hassle etc. so as far as i´m concerned lower end is the way to go. The funny thing about cluj is that the secondary market flats are often more expensive than the primary market ones (new builds). This must have something to do with people not willing to gamble their money when something hasn´t been built or they believe the quality of some of the building or materials are substandard. I know a lot of romanians are quite dubious about off-plan deals. Well we´ll be in touch, have a nice weekend, Liam

Hello Liam, It seems that it's just you and me on this one. Your info is good so far as Cluj is concerned. I'm told that in Iasi there is a political problem...something that doesnt apply to the centre of the universe. I've just come back froma free rock concert - Iris who formed 30 years ago and are Romania's best. Last week it was Bayonce but I skipped that one. The week before that it was the Transilvania Jazz festival featuring Billy Cobham...bloody brilliant! The Opera and ballet seasons are starting so if your not into rock there's cultural diversity. If you want to find the few Cluj unemployed go to the Karma Club www.karma.ro I guess..customers are so bloody rich work is something they retired from once they had made their money. You can have a brilliant social life in this city. You mention the manana way...well I have to warn you that Romania is a Latin country and things either happen very fast or you find life frustrating and learn that kicking a...s just doesnt work. I'm of the opinion that the Cluj population will grow to 2 million. That's mega expansion. In my opinion - and I am not an expert - if you want to win this Monopoly game you either have to spread your investments or do as I am doing (and I think you might follow) and have a very intimate relationship with your chosen location. I know about plans for roads, I know the law and I know when funny money will make things happen. In short I know my back yard. I'll share with you a secret which as a person who has been here you will appreciate. Cluj is in a valley surrounded by the hills that are Feleacu and Lomb. At this time of year the city suffers from cloud and fog as it was today. For the first time in a few weeks I went up to my land on Lomb (the land with a view). I was in full sun with blue skies above and stripped down to my T-shirt whilst in the city people were wet and cold with umbrellas. Look across the city and you are at the same level as the planes as they fly in to land. It was like being in a plane when you are in sun and above the cloud and rain. You also have sun all day because that hill faces south west. Whilst I agree that the best property investment is a small studio apartment from both a rent and capital appreciation point of view it's not the best place to put your money. When you buy off the plan you are giving a constructor money to allow him to make a profit of you. PS are aware that this is my opinion so it's not a hidden secret. For Romanians in recent years (but I think less so now) there was an issue about quality of materials used but now constructors have to give guarantees and fix faults so they are held to account. As you will know Romanians now have access to modern techniques and materials imported from mainstream EU countries..and they use them. If anybody has cheap secondhand acrow let me know cos there is a market for it...also JCBs! OK...that's enough for tonight. Laura will arrive in 5 minutes and I will not be focusing on property. Kind regards Charles

Hi Charles/Liam Thanks for those amazing pictures Charles. I secured a Jucu apartment through PS and am really pleased I did so now. Unfortunately I didn't have time to do much research so bought purely for the immiment capital gains. What an amazing bonus with surrounding scenery!!! Cluj sounds quirky with loads of character. Hopefully I will manage a visit at completion and before the tenants move in!!! Your inputs were very much appreciated by me at least!!!

Hi many thanks for the acknowledgement. I really must keep the camera in the car. I was out this afternoon checking progress of the Transilvania Highway and that very thought crossed my mind. I'll probably be out at Jucu on Monday and will post some pics from the top of the block. Potentially we are neighbours...I have two aps. in the first block which will be completed by December...but I will probably sell before Christmas at a 100% profit. Not bad in 9 months. regards Charles

Charles Really interesting to read your posts and nice to have someone 'in the know' in this particular area. I did quite a bit of research on the area before investing but couldnt quite work out how PS reckon there are going to be 30,000 jobs in the area. I made it 7,000 from General Motors, 7,000 from a chinese supplier and about 3,500 from Nokia.....(PS reckon 15,000 but Nokia have said its not as much as this)? Heard a whisper that Ericsson will be moving into the area too....do you know anything about this? Anyway, there are plenty of jobs being created and I'm sure the Eastern side of Cluj will look completely different in a few years time. 100% profit in a year would do very nicely....but I'll be happy to settle for 60%...is this achieveable? Regards Sanj

Hi Welcome (back) to the Cluj club. Ericsson are interested in moving into Cluj. But honestly - I cant keep up with this development. I have a new PA starting on Monday and this will be part of her JD. I'm supposed to be retired but I've never been so busy in my life. What I do know is that Tetarom, a gov. agency charged with developing industrial parks, have recently aquired more land out here....so something's going on....and will for years to come. The Romans didnt get it wrong! 60%....possible for sure..but I bought in at a critical time. My caveat on those apts. is that they are dependant on workers ability pay and that means Nokia wages. God knows where Nokia, GM etc management will live...they wont want to drive from or through central Cluj, past the airprort and the development of the industrial area for sure...but they might like to drive 20 minutes from Lomb on the new road around the back of the city and out to Apahida/Jucu. You will get a brilliant return on your investment but dont ask me to quantify it. 30000 jobs is a round figure. But I know that there are over 20 pages of job ads in the local Piata ( cheap mag that buys and sells everything) each week...so 1000 jobs each week..something like that. People are moving here from the north and from the south so it's definitely a city that's in fifth gear. But dont forget the Romans came here. Go to the new Polus Centre and you will find a section of glass floor with Roman pottery and ruins beneath it. Take into account the PS analysis of today but also look to history! Naroc or cheers in English, Charles

Hallo Liam , Hallo Charles, Come back and see this interesting thread on Cluj...i have been also planning to invest in Cluj for while and are now organising my fly (from Germany/Dortmund Line will open on the 13-Nov). From what i untersdand you are not so keen about off plan projects..Liam when you say 30000-60000 Eu, was it finished appartments ready to rent ? are you not interested by off-plan with a small downpayment and just wait for the completion? What is your view on off-plan? Christian