It is approx a year since I last put a post on a PS forum as a direct result of the Cyprus fiasco that Deric & I experienced at Avlida at so called 'Handover'/'Completion' when I could get noone at PS to take this seriously enough - the last comment I had from Oliver was that the latest update on Avlida was that the only problem we had was 'A Barking Dog'!!!! I buried my head in my hands at that point and cancelled my membership. However, having read this thread I do feel that I can contribute something hopefully without being too negative or destructive as it looks hopeful that the penny has dropped at last.

Firstly I am pleased to hear that Oliver and Neil are at last having serious discussions about the very real problems that those who have invested in the Cyprus PS deals are experiencing in trying to sell or rent their apts, leaving aside the appalling quality that we were presented with at so called completion and the disgusting lack of interest/response by the Solicitors representing us, which meant that we had to personally work hard ourselves to get a 'habitable' development.

Secondly, I do believe that I have a pretty good grip on what is going on and what has gone on in Cyprus and will try to share my thoughts in a positive and constructive way but it will involve some critism along the way I'm afraid.

As Anna has pointed our, her information was passed on from the PS contact in Cyprus. This is what has been the main problem with the Cyprus investments all along - PS have relied on information provided by, IMHO, wholly unreliable sources - I found this out when I spent more than 5 months out there doing my own thorough research. Cyprus is an unusual place with an awful lot of untrained/inexperienced/biased 'experts' who believe it is OK to tell people what they want to hear rather than what is fact (I am trying to be polite here). There are often no requirements to show experience/qualifications/licensing or membership of Trade Associations and rules don't mean much - most people get jobs based on who they know and are related to rather than what they know. This is not always the case but unfortunately with regard to the PS deals this, we found appeared to be the case. The Cyprus property market is constantly 'talked up' by the Developers.

I must also point out that BuySell are not an Estate Agent and are not licensed as such - they are a listing agent, although their statistics are generally accepted by the industry, mainly because noone else bothers to do them!!!

The rental market in Kapparis is pretty hopeless because there are too many apartments in a fairly small area and there are going to be alot more in the next year or two, the clients are mainly young people looking for seasonal rentals and won't pay more than 300-450 euros per month for a 2 bed apt in that area (furnished or unfurnished). The letting agent that has been most proactive at Avlida is Photiou Estates but they don’t get much rent (I would also add that from the feedback I have had it is common to rent in Cyprus without a contract – horror upon horror!!)

I agree that the Cypriots are huge consumers - mostly electrical appliances, cars and Italian furniture/furnishings, they're not so interested in buying apartments in what is now a largely British area. The British who retire out there mainly want houses with gardens, as do the families that move out there. For holidays the postion of Avlida, Santa Marina and Phoenix are not brilliant and the whole area is quite shabby and littered, the developer doesn't clear up properly after the build and it has been an enormous amount of effort to keep on at him to do what he should be doing. He will always turn it on us and blame us for something - that is also the Cypriot way unfortunately and it achieves nothing most of the time.

It is my opinion that the main issues to ensure that PS Investors stand a chance of selling their units are:-

1. At Avlida (I can't speak for Santa Marina and Phoenix but I guess it's the same situation) We desperately need a Final Completion Certificate issued by the local authority. We were given a certificate issued by an Engineer in Nicosia which was dated December 2006, the development was nowhere near complete at this stage and I believe this was fabricated to make us pay. I have been advised that it is illegal to occupy a property unless the Final Completion Certificate has been issued by the local authrity, to do this they have to come out and measure up and check that the entire complex is built complete in accordance with the original plans and build permits. Anyone occupying their apartments is doing so illegally. I have asked the Developer to give me a copy of the Final Completion Certificate but he has failed to do so and has assured me that I can carry on living in my apartment without interference by the authorities - this is not good enough and will not satisfy anyone wishing to purchase my apartment.

2. Title Deeds are more urgent than we had originally been led to believe. Photiou Estates refused to take my apartment on their books to sell as they said they have too many apartments already and unless we have Title Deeds we won't be able to sell it to a Cypriot. The British aren't buying at the moment and the Russians only want luxury seafront properties. The Title Deeds can't be issued unless the Final Completion Certificate has been issued but I know that the Developer is in the hands of the authorities when it comes to delays issuing Title Deeds. PS could put pressure on the authorities over this, aswell as the Developer. I know that the Cyprus Property Action Group are working very hard on this but if PS were to give them support it would add weight to the argument that the Gvt needs to do more to put this right. It is quite common in Cyprus for a Developer to remortgage land that has been built on and sold as the Title Deeds are still in his name.

3. There are some very difficult and alarming cases where Developers have allegedly defrauded Brits out of their homes and money in Cyprus. Lately the case of Conor O'Dwyer , a British property purchaser, who was badly beaten up by a Developer has hit the press and the internet (www.lyingbuilder.com) we are yet to see a lot more on this case both in the UK press and TV, this will do an enormous amount of damage to the Cyprus property market – I am particularly concerned as it occurred quite close to PS developments in Cyprus. PS could do more to put pressure on the authorities and developers in Cyprus to clean up their act as this case actually brings into question the role of the Lawyers and the Land Registry with regard to securing your contract for specific performance, aswell as the safety of Brits in Cyprus and the alleged ‘Wild West’ behaviour of developers.

4. We are all trying to do our best to find Agents to sell or rent our properties and at a commission of around 5%. If PS were to do a deal on our behalf to place them all with one agent then there would be more motivation for that Agent to work harder for us. I would still be happy to pay 5 % and as already has been said by others above I would pay more if I got the sort of figure Anna is quoting for Avlida. I just want my money back and to get out - Cyprus is in fact a cultural nightmare for me and I have never worked so hard on anything in my life. I wish I had visited the place for a few months before I bought instead of relying on the PS prospectus. I know we had a couple of weeks to do Due Diligence ourselves but come on guys, get real, Richard Davies didn’t find anything like what we found when we went out there and he spent longer at it than we had before we ‘confirmed’. There has been a huge smoke screen covering a lot of things in the Property Sector in Cyprus and it takes a lot of hard work and perseverance to get beneath that screen, I believe that we came somewhere near it – I used to think we had been ripped off by PS, now I believe that they were misled and didn’t spend enough time on the ground getting to know the people they were dealing with. Cyprus has been a tough lesson for me but I think it has been a tough one for PS too.

I do actually think that Avlida is a nice enough development now, not quite what we are used to and it doesn't pay to look too closely but that goes for most developments out there so if PS can help get us a final completion certificate, the deeds and find a good Agent to take all the apartments on proactively then we might stand a chance of getting our money back or minimising our loss (don't expect a profit at this stage).

Jo King

Jo, thanks for your very informative piece.

Oliver, have you any news following your earlier post?
Huw

Oliver,

Jo has only scratched the surface, and I know she is holding a lot back.

Avlida investors long ago gave up any hope of help from PS.

It would be nice to be proven wrong.

To follow on from the 'pump and dump' theory - fact or fiction? -

It is happening and immediately alongside our developments - some 400 units I believe, some already being built and some about to start - Alot of you already know the Developer and UK Finders involved so I won't go into that on this forum but what some of you may not be entirely aware of is how the 'offplan' market works.

We didn't get 20% discount off the market 'resale' price or anything like. What we got was 20% off the 'offplan' price, which is inflated by approx 10 - 20% more than the resale price. That's just one of the many differences between the Cyprus property market and other countries. Anna has mentioned the 8-9% that Agents get for 'Offplan', in actual fact 15% is not uncommon and that is added to the price (+ VAT). Again, it works differently in Cyprus, they value the property and then they add their fees + VAT. so you pay more for offpan because the Agent's fees are more. We also paid Finders Fees. As soon as your apartment is complete the value drops surprisingly because it no longer includes the fees. Photiou Estates also told me quite sternly that "the trouble with British Investors is that they pay over the odds for offplan property and then expect us to sell it at a profit - it isn't going to happen" - note they also sell 'offplan' to the Brits!

So at the moment it is almost impossible to find an offplan 2 bed apt with pool in our area for less than 155000 euros (£90k CYP) Many have sold at alot more than this, but you try and sell your apartment at anything like this figure - you will be very lucky. I have added at least 16000 euros of finishes into my apartment (contemp Italian kitchen with Bosch integrated appliances, expensive sanitaryware, aircon, downlighters and false ceiling plus Ikea furniture) and still can't sell it for 150000 euros so don't bother spending more on your apartments to try and sell them.

Conclusion - 'pump and dump' is all around us.

Jo, may I say that your post is a very realistic, factul and honest apprasial of the situation in Cyprus, particularly with regard to Avlida, and in many respects, with regard to the other PS projects there.

Thank you for summarising and reporting on your experiences; I hope that if everyone continues to work together, progress will be made, but I fear that without the intervention of senior people at PS, the developer and 'purchase lawyer' will continue to ignore the requests of the PS clients.

Without your's and Deric's immense efforts, the Avlida situation would be far worse than it is now - I hope all the Avlida owners realise this!!

All the best
H.

Thankyou Helen but this was not meant to be an exercise to prove who has and hasn't done what they should have done. We know the people who have been putting the right sort of pressures on quietly in the background and they deserve credit - it isn't easy out there. However there are alot of people burying their heads in the sand equally, but probably because they don't know what to do and don't have much time.

That is all history and hopefully we have all learned lessons from Cyprus. The issue now is 'damage limitation'. The focus now has to be on those that wish to get out without losses and those that wish to keep their investment long term without huge losses.

It is clear to anybody that has hands on knowledge rather than 'hearsay' that the properties aren't selling for the amounts we had hoped and aren't worth what the 'offplan' equivalents are. It is also clear that the properties aren't fetching anything like the rental income that was hoped and people aren't able to cover their mortgages, also the rental risks are much higher.

Having said that, it is not all bad news, the Greek PM is talking to the Turkish PM on the Cyprus issue for the first time in 49 years and Cyprus is hopeful that 2008 is the 'window of opportunity'. So whatever your views are on how a peaceful resolution to Cyprus will affect our property values there may be a window of opportunity for us and if PS Managers can come up with a good Marketing Plan for our properties in Cyprus - after all that your Speciality Neil - then we all might be able to realise something positive from it all.

If 'Pump and Dump' can work for offplan why shouldn't it work for Resales?

In my view a good marketing plan for rentals should be possible if professionals are used rather than part-time expats who want easy money (whoops there I go again!)

Neil, in addition to the above request and any other thoughts you might be having on how to help us Investors move forward with our Cyprus Investments, could you please ask Richard Davies to share his experiences with his investments in Cyprus and how he advises we should be proceed - this is not meant to be antagonistic, but we Investors at Avlida have a communication network set up now to exchange ideas and experiences - we had 26 members at last count and we have a link to further Investors at Santa Marina who also have a network set up, it would be good to hear from the expert who must have faced some similar problems as us, unless people in Cyprus have treated him differently to the rest of us.

We aren't going to be able to leave this one Neil, we have too much at stake and everyone is looking to PS now to help sort this one out.

It is no good anyone at PS telling us to sort ourselves out (which was the line Oliver took with us last time I raised issues over Cyprus) we did that, we worked extremely hard to get a Committee off the ground, meeting in the UK and drew up agreements etc - only to find that the Laws in Cyprus state quite clearly that the only person who is recognised in a court of law in Cyprus is the person owning the Deeds! So we have no legal status and cannot operate correctly without it. None of this was explained in the PS prospectus. Hence, we need our Deeds and more.

Jo

Neil, I have had a huge response from other Property Secrets Investors in Cyprus who are looking to you to come up with some sort of package to sell/rent our properties for us as most of them stand empty at the moment. We sincerely believe that this is a result of inadequate marketing for the reasons given in my posts above, combined with not having a Final Completion certificate and Deeds. The apartments themselves do have alot of potential.

I hope that your silence so far is because you are working on this for us but we would like confirmation that you are giving this your best attention.

When we invested in this deal, in 2005, it was one of your earliest Deals and you didn't have so many members, alot of us were nervous and scepticle as you had always produced good Books but we weren't sure of your ability to pull off this sort of thing, you told us "Judge us by our Performance."

As said above, there are several key reasons why the Cyprus deals aren't working for us and these are things that should have been sorted during the research and legal stages but as mentioned before, this is history and we now have just a few key steps to take that could turn this around for us. In my opinion it is 'Your Partners' who have underperformed and continue to underperform and instead of taking everything at face value from your Partners it would be more constructive for all of us if you would listen to your Clients now and move forward with this on their behalf.

Dear All,

Please direct your concerns and comments to myself. I have taken this on as I am the Head of i-PropertyAssets and have the knowledge and resources to drill down into the detail on behalf of the Property Secrets Cyprus investors and will dedicate myself to providing a solution.

My first step has been to acquire the assistance of Panos Tsigaras, the Head of our Spanish i-PA operation who speaks fluent greek and has many contacts on the island.

We are researching the situation, building the specification (using your valuable feedback) and will source the most appropriate partner(s) to work on the ground in delivering the handover services in line with our Local Completion Service.

We will identify agents and management companies that can offer assistance with letting and sales of the apartments.

By operating on behalf of all the Cyprus investors we believe that we can provide clarity and action on behalf of everyone and will do our best to remove the above mentioned difficulties as far as possible.

Our aim is to reduce hassle and increase your profits. We will do what we can to assist.

Thank you for your detailed input. We will take all the above on board and will endeavour to eliminate these problems in the delivery of future developments.

Kind Regards

Oliver Watts

Thank you Oliver (and I say that with an enormous sigh of relief) we look forward to the results.

Jo